Date: Thu Nov 18 00:53:47 2004
Sender: Jens Eichler
So everything stays at it is?
We have lost another coach (Serge) in the cause of this discussion, who was one
of the most active in EFA. Again the discussion was fruitless since no changes
were made. So we go on like it is and wait until the rest is so frustrated that
they finally leave?
I was nearly hitting the button a few times over the last few days. I don't
really see how this league can work. I have played for a few American Football
teams in Germany. I know when something is not working but nobody is willing to
admit it. I had the experience before.
I am trying it one last time:
1) I think the simulation has to use more soccer terms. Maybe the simulation
has all the tactical possibilities we were asking for, but it is not using the
soccer language to describe them. I would like to see offensive and defensive
midfielders and different tactics like kick and rush instead of long ball. I
have played soccer for 13 Years. I don't see this simulation as a true
representation of real soccer. This point includes all the discussions we had
before like how to position players on the field. I don't want to repeat that.
2) Make the league more interesting, not just for the top 3 teams. Why not
create an international competition like the Champions League. At first most of
the teams could be computer teams, so the number of actual leagues doesn't
matter. Later more and more teams can be replaced by DEL-soccer leagues. If the
top 4 teams qualify there is suddenly competition up to nearly the end of the
season for the top 8 teams. Make the computer teams strong, so that it is a
real competition even if it is just computer teams.
3) Use names of actual teams. I think that would help to identify better with
the teams. Maybe it is a license problem, but I wanted to mention this anyway.
Wouldn't it be nice to be the coach of Manchester United or Bayern Munich
instead of the Monkeys or Angels. Maybe that would make more people join.
4) Make a new start. If all the changes are made we should make a new start.
Let everyone start on the same level. That will create new excitement. Ok, the
established teams will loose some, but they have the experience and will come
back soon.
Ok, these are the points I would like to see changed. I see a problem with this
league and I don't see the willingness to change it to the better. We had at
least 4 discussions about changes in the last year or so. Is there as much
discussion in the other sports, too? I don't see how this league can be fun
again without changes. Actually it never really was as much fun as e.g.
football.
Jens
Date: Thu Nov 18 16:26:47 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
1) I have proposed the MF thing a long time ago, but andy beleives you can do
that with the shooting passign options, which i desagree with, cos i like my
defensive MF to shoot as well.
2) Once again i have proposed this a while ago, andy is willing to do that
though, so we need to work on the specification
3) We can use the premiereship, one league and not the best teams of every
league, i think it's better, but it's a good idea Jens.
4) All the coaches who voted for this agreed that it needs to be done, but Andy
doesn't think it's a good idea to merge, or to create one big league with just
active coaches
Date: Sat Nov 20 00:16:01 2004
Sender: Matt Hanson
"3) Use names of actual teams. I think that would help to identify better with
the teams. Maybe it is a license problem, but I wanted to mention this anyway.
Wouldn't it be nice to be the coach of Manchester United or Bayern Munich
instead of the Monkeys or Angels. Maybe that would make more people join."
You choose the name of your team, at least in EFA. So you could choose
Manchester United if you wanted over there. However, over in IOFA, we were out
voted (no recount was done) and the team names were fixed using Major World
Cities as team names. I do believe the main argument against REAL (soccer)
team names is a licensing issue. And no, i don't feel it would make more
people join. I think being the Owner/GM of your own team, people would more
like to be able to NAME thier OWN team.
Date: Sat Nov 20 05:49:55 2004
Sender: Jens Eichler
1) This was proposed many times by many different people. I was reading this
since I joined the league. Andy thinks different. But just the number of times
this point came up should prove, that it is a needed change. It is not so much
about if it is possible or not to do it with the simulation as it is now. I
think it is more important to make this game more realistic. More soccer like.
Using the right terms makes a big difference I think.
2) I have also proposed it before. Andy wants to change it, ok, how do we want
it to be. Here is my proposel:
Top 4 Teams qualify for the Champions League each from EFA and IOFA. Add
another 8 Computer teams (or later, if two more leagues form add the other
leagues), which are stronger then the average computer teams to make it a good
competition. Form 4 groups and play each other at home and away. One team from
each league, one team each that was 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th. The four group
leaders get into the half final with a home and home series. Away goals count
more to decide the winner. Two winners get into the one game final on neutral
ground.
3) I think it makes a difference. But this is a debate that is not so
important, since first the simulation must be improved.
4) I don't care if we merge. I voted for a merger since I thought this would
create some more activity. The same with a restart. I tihnk twenty active
coaches in one league is better then 10 each (if we have that many).
I would just like to have fun again in this league. If I don't see an
improvement over the next season I will probably quit. Serge tried really hard
last season, but how many coaches respondet to him? I think it were like three
at most. I don't see any sense in trying again and again to make this league
work if nothing changes to the better. I am to the point were EFA just
frustrates me and I have a very high frustration level.
Jens
Date: Sun Nov 21 21:42:39 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
I would like to have Andy's opinion on this
Date: Tue Nov 23 08:23:31 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
???
Date: Sat Nov 27 20:33:53 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
Andy, can you give us your point of view?
Date: Tue Nov 30 01:08:17 2004
Sender: Jens Eichler
Update:
4 Coaches send in Waiver wire bids for the first bidding round (Monkeys,
Nationals, Red Stars, Sharks)
There is only one offer on the transfer list, by the Metropolitans
I have not seen a report in weeks. Maybe there was one by the Angels, if I
remember right.
And was there any trade this off-season? I was checking in the transfer
protocol. We had not one trade!!! Since Serge is gone my only regular trade
partner is gone, too.
So is EFA still breathing? I think we can soon turn off the machines and let
EFA rest in peace.
Jens
Date: Tue Nov 30 08:38:18 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
Yup, and Andy still thinks that everything is fine....
Jens, serge was your best trade partner, and he was mine, and now since he's
gone, maybe we can become best trade partners (shit that sounds really lame,
something like, if i give you a candy, would you become my friend lol)
Date: Wed Dec 1 12:32:30 2004
Sender: Andy Dolphin
Yeah, I know. If I'd only create offensive midfielders, DEL soccer would be a
smashing success. I've heard it before, but it's no more accurate now than it
was in the past... DEL survives on word-of-mouth advertising only. This has
been fine for the three big sports, and it keeps DEL humming at a rate that
uses as much server capacity and network bandwidth as I'm willing to buy. But
most DEL coaches are from the US, and this means that hockey and especially
soccer will always be tougher to fill. The "solution" would be to turn DEL
into more of a business, buy some more servers, spiff up the website, and
advertise -- something I'm not really keen on doing at the moment.
There is lots of room for improvement in all the sims. Obviously a soccer
player will be critical of the soccer sim's realism, just as a baseball player
will be critical of the baseball sim's realism. Making improvements to DEL
soccer rates below hockey on my priority list.
I'm not sure what you're complaining about with the "make the league more
interesting" comment. On an earlier thread, I had suggested making DEL cup
take only the top four teams per league. People didn't seem very enthusiastic
about this.
I can't allow you to use real team names (except by individual choice), but a
league can change its team names to real-life city names.
Clearing the rosters and re-signing players as free agents is fine with me.
I'd need to hear from the commissioner at the appropriate time; presumably
after the commish ran a vote among his coaches.
Date: Fri Dec 3 03:41:48 2004
Sender: Jens Eichler
Andy,
you probably didn't read my mail and my postings fully. I was giving a
suggestion on the DEL cup. I explained in my second post what I mean with more
fun. No comment on that.
I also wrote that I like the football simulation and that I am a member in four
leagues. Soccer is far behind the reality you have created in football. I am
not critizising because the simulation needs some improvement. I critize
because the soccer league is almost dead.
I will put my team on hold. I will make the necessary adjustments for the
season and wait for changes. I am travelling for the next five months and have
no time anyway for my team. I could also leave now (and I was very close
hitting the button this morning), but soccer only has a chance if the veteran
coaches stay. I have no more fun with EFA. There are four coaches left who
participate, Serge tried hard and is now gone, I lost my interest, too. Soccer
right now for me is just not worth spending any minute on it. I could have left
without a notice, but I wanted to see if you are willing to make changes before
I leave.
Jens
Date: Sat Dec 4 12:03:22 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
IOFA is dead too. Coaches like Ostby leave for no reason, so we can come to a
conclusion that DEL soccer is DEAD.... Too bad
Date: Wed Dec 15 14:19:48 2004
Sender: Andy Dolphin
I've repeatedly suggested reducing DEL cup to 4 teams per league to keep things
interesting later in the season for more teams. This would seem to meet the
goal of making the end of the season more interesting for more teams, without
requiring me to completely retool the interleague play programs. However, when
I make this suggestion, there is no discussion -- just repeated requests that I
mimic the real-life champions' league format with group play and a knockout
tournament.
This is the sort of thing I find frustrating. It gives the impression that the
list is an ultimatum, and that you have no interest in whether your demands are
feasible or if there are other ways that the same goals could be met.
Date: Fri Dec 17 20:32:26 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
the list is not an ultimatum, but we strongly feel that the DEL cup thing is
good, but not good enought if it's done alone, it has to be done along other
things that the coaches have proposed
Date: Mon Dec 20 00:04:29 2004
Sender: Matt Hanson
I don't understand why there is a feeling of "all or nothing" in changes to the
soccer sim. Being the lowest priority of all the sims, i would think people
would welcome even the smallest changes to better the sim.
As far as the Champions league stuff: I don't really know or understand how
the "real world" handles tournaments for soccer, so i can't really comment on
changing the tournaments.
While i do like the fact that all human coaches are granted a berth in the DEL
cup, i do think it would add some form of added challenge to make the playoffs
(not all teams make it).
I know that a lot of teams are continually dominant, always finishing towards
the top. Maybe if there was some type of prize for winning the DEL cup or even
the regular season. Like a free season or something. Maybe a free season in
any sport. It might give coaches something to shoot for.
Date: Wed Dec 22 14:37:25 2004
Sender: Karim Cheaib
Well one other thing that needs to be worked on is players rest. they get tired
too fast. If they play 2 games in a row, they have to rest the third one. in
real soccer, some players usually plays every single games. i know we have
subs, but that makes the player not play the entire game, and it only targets 3
players.
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