Date: Tue Jan 30 18:23:08 2007
Sender: Kent Ostby
This is a proposal to even out the tiers in Recruiting.
I can only speak for Football and Hockey.
In football, there are 6 BCS conferences and only five recruiting regions.
The struggling conference (Big East) shares a recruiting region with on of the
top powerhouse ocnferences which I believe is a detriment to their recruiting.
In hockey, there are 3 Tier I conference and only two recruiting regions. I
specifically picked the conference that doesn't share a recruiting region after
bad Big East experiences in football.
In football, I'd like to see a sixth region added so that some of the top
talent that should be going into the Big East doesn't get sucked as easily into
the ACC.
In hockey, I'd like to see it split out so that you only have one top tier
conference recruting in each region instead of two in one and one in the other.
Date: Tue Jan 30 20:02:44 2007
Sender: Red Burley
Kent, that seems like a good idea for CCEL.
Except-I can picture all the 20 prestige schools having a feeding frenzy in the
Big East's region.
Date: Tue Jan 30 20:47:47 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Supposedly, statistically, it doesn't matter since there are more
talented-players in the multiple-top-conference regions. I'm not sure that I
buy that. If the tiers are truly created equal, then they should each have
their own region.
Certainly, at any given point, out-of-region teams will poach on the weaker
teams' regions. The pecking order of conferences does tend to change over
time. Having been on both sides of the poaching equation, I often wonder if
region-preference really makes much of a difference in a player's choice of
where to sign. The only difference it seems to make is that one doesn't have
to spend that extra point to invite in-region players.
Date: Tue Jan 30 22:01:45 2007
Sender: AJ Perko
Is it just temporary, the Big East situation?
Are there more recruits in that ACC-Big East section? If I were a talented
coach looking for a team I'd consider going to the Big East right now.
Date: Wed Jan 31 09:31:43 2007
Sender: Kent Ostby
It's not a temporary situation AJ.
Jay .. I understand how its suppossed to work, but I doubt that it does.
Let's say there were 6 top recruits in the other regions and 9 in the ACC/Big
East region thanks to the difference of having those a second Tier II school in
there.
Do you think those 9 recruits are going to break down on a 6 / 3 basis between
ACC and Big East?
I don't.
I think they are going to be split between Wake and UNC.
That's the problem with the defense you offered for the situation (and it's
Andy's typical response as well).
Date: Wed Jan 31 10:42:30 2007
Sender: AJ Perko
"I think they are going to be split between Wake and UNC."
and the recruits in the Big Ten get split by Northwestern and Michigan State...
and when they are done everyone else picks from the scraps.
so your saying because there are 20 DI teams in Region D, that there are not
enough good recruits going around?
How many DI teams are in the other conferences?
Not to mention, teams like Wake, Mich St, ND, Mwest and UNC are still going to
fill their entire rosters before anyone below a 20 lands anyone.
Date: Wed Jan 31 10:48:15 2007
Sender: Tom DeSanctis
I've brought this up with Andy and I don't think it's going to happen anytime
soon.
While poachers could and will come along, the regionalization (is that a word)
of the recruits makes it much easier for a Tier 1 conference to recruit if they
don't have to worry about competing against so many other Tier 1 teams.
I think Andy wants to wait another three or four seasons before making a change
like this because he's saying the Big East schools were mostly Tier 2 before
Louisville, South Florida and Cincinnati jumped over and, given a few more Tier
1 recruiting seasons, they should be able to compete in the near future. I'm
not sure I totally agree with that logic because 5 of the schools that were
already Tier 1 and forced to compete with the ACC and they have seemingly not
gone anywhere while already being in Tier 1. The obvious answer to the Big
East dilemma is to get an influx of 2-3 GOOD human coaches. But even still...
All that would do would lower the overall rating of both the ACC while raising
the Big East rating only slightly.
I'd like to see a sixth region as well. It is doable but I like I said
before... I don't see Andy making this change anytime soon.
Date: Wed Jan 31 23:19:13 2007
Sender: AJ Perko
Isn't that conference getting more quality recruits though?
Then again, I'm not sure if thats the answer either.
Lets say (for arguements sake) the average conference gets 10 A recruits, this
conference gets 16 A recruits.
My question would be, does that work?
Or does that mean the top two teams in that conference will take 16 A recruits
and have an unfair advantage over every other conference where the top 2 teams
only get to split 10 A recruits?
Date: Thu Feb 1 08:58:04 2007
Sender: Tom DeSanctis
Right, AJ. That's exactly what Oz and I are talking about. Each Tier 1 team
needs to have their own recruiting region because the top 2-3 teams in a region
have basically a monopoly on the top players in their region. Sure, a few slip
through the cracks (that's how I got my current QB at Louisville) but its very,
very rare. In three seasons of recruiting in the Big East with the highest
recruiting prestige (even though its only an 18), I've got only that one great
blue chip player. And I know what it's like to recruit as a 13 or 15 cause
that's where I started.
Date: Thu Feb 1 17:15:34 2007
Sender: Dave Wick
It seems the top 4-8 teams can go to any region and grab players, so I don't
know if adding a region would change a lot for the top teams. And, since
everyone keeps using examples of how many A rated players there are, that seems
to be the concern more than what the 15 and 16 prestige teams are picking up.
Date: Thu Feb 1 22:04:32 2007
Sender: Rick Joslin
Although I haven't done the numbers, I noticed and mentioned this once before
that there seems to be a disproportionate number of top talent players on the
top teams. It seems to me that if a team already has a number of top players
that a young recruit wanting to play may thing twice about going to that
school.
Here is an example of Wake Forrest:
520 B.Meltaus TB Jr 3 4 9 1 1 3 4 0 15 -- NS--G- *S A A TB
380 M.Magee TB Jr 6 2 8 1 3 3 2 5 14 -- N----- *S A A TB
41 P.Bulit TB Jr 8 2 8 2 2 1 6 1 17 -- N-L--- *S A A TB
331 A.Ortman TB Fr 5 3 8 1 1 1 2 2 13 -- N----- *- B A TB
302 B.Rua TB Fr 5 7 7 1 1 2 2 0 12 -- N----- *- B A TB
698 W.Boyle TB Fr 6 1 6 3 1 3 4 1 10 -- ------ RS C A TB
North Carolina:
51 H.Corbin TB Jr 8 5 7 3 4 4 2 3 11 -- NSLRGH XS A A FB
369 P.Withers TB Fr 10 2 5 1 1 2 8 6 10 19 N----- *S B A TB
53 E.John TB So 8 3 6 1 1 2 4 0 11 -- N----- *S B A TB
160 J.Everly TB Fr 8 1 7 3 1 1 6 5 14 -- ------ RS A A TB
43 D.Campbell TB Fr 5 5 7 3 3 3 6 0 10 -- ------ RS A A FB
Simply increasing the number of top players in the region to recruit from
really doesn't distribute them amoung all the teams. The real winners are the
top teams as they have more A players to recruit.
Just an observation and not a complaint :-) My team has steadily improved but
after 3 seasons, here is my TB’s
1105 M.Baker TB Jr 5 5 8 2 2 2 2 0 16 -- -S--G- *S A A TB
6192 R.Peltier TB Jr 1 3 8 2 3 3 2 0 15 -- ------ *S C C FB
1137 D.Perkins TB So 2 2 8 2 1 1 4 6 10 -- ------ RS C A TB
If you ever get to the top, your have it made.
Date: Fri Feb 2 07:39:36 2007
Sender: Kent Ostby
Rick -- I agree with you.
It's a slightly different issue. In my mind, (and I've said this before), I'd
like to see all playing time demands expanded a bit.
Basically, a player happiness factor if you will.
An "A" player who sits behind a younger player would become unhappy enough to
transfer after the season.
Any "A" player who is a senior would become unhappy if they aren't starting.
Another thing would be that any "B/A" or "A/A" walkon would require a
scholarship to keep them even their first season.
Date: Fri Feb 2 12:01:15 2007
Sender: Kevin Caery
One question I'm not seeing here is, is it realistic for the top-prestige teams
to monopolize all the best prospects in a region? Go to Scout/Rivals.com, look
at the average star rankings for USC, Florida, Texas, OSU: DEL actually gets
recruiting very right in terms of realism. If anything, I'd like to see less
emphasis on region, with more of the top recruits in the no-region, as
recruiting is these days a national effort for virtually any D-IA team.
Date: Fri Feb 2 14:02:37 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Kevin, since when does a top DEL program have ANY trouble landing out-of-region
talent? Across DEL, there are many region-preference players who have all five
visits to out-of-region schools.
Date: Fri Feb 2 15:42:51 2007
Sender: AJ Perko
It's been a gripe of mine- and everytime I bring it up someone pulls up a rare
example to try to tell me I'm wrong.
In real life DI, I'd bet 75% of all teams have at least an AA RB or QB (DEL
equivalent)
In DEL, it's easier for a top team to get 5 AA RB's on the bench then it is for
the #30 ranked team to get even 1.
I don't think thats accurate. I'm also not providing a solution, just an
observation. However, maybe the answer isn't more regions.. but less power to
the 19's and 20's...
Date: Mon Feb 5 13:26:55 2007
Sender: Kevin Caery
Jay, I'm not talking about TOP programs, I'm talking about everybody. RL
recruiting is national for even the mid-majors and lower-level tier-1 teams
these days, and with this discussion about relative strength of DEL recruiting
regions, it just makes sense to me to give less weight to region in calculating
visiting preferences. DEL does have a lot of out-of-region recruiting, but it
is dominated by the top teams.
But that's just a minor suggestion that I'd rather see before some of the more
radical ones in this thread: I've always thought DEL recruiting is the best and
most realistic part of the sim.
Date: Wed Feb 7 10:11:57 2007
Sender: Tom DeSanctis
Agree with Kevin here... I've tried going out of region for CB rated players
(with an 18 prestige) with PTP and extra points and had maybe one show up out
of 10. Whereas I can usually get 7 out of 10 in region to show up with the
same promises.
Date: Wed Feb 7 13:52:05 2007
Sender: Kevin Caery
"It's been a gripe of mine- and everytime I bring it up someone pulls up a rare
example to try to tell me I'm wrong."
Here's a good one for ya, AJ: you of course know Broderick Green signed with
USC today... He's the #14 (Rivals) overall RB in the nation, but guess who
else signed with USC: #1 RB Joe McKnight and #2 RB Marc Tyler! And don't
forget last year the Trojans got #2 RB Stafon Johnson, #3 RB Stanley Havili,
and #9 RB Emmanuel Moody. Examples like this really aren't all that rare
either...
The problem in DEL seems to be there are too few quality recruits to simulate
the depth of today's RL recruiting classes.
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