Date: Sun Jul 13 08:46:04 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I would love if recruiting removed the letter grades like in
EPBL.
Does anyone else support this idea.
I hate the fact top teams can just check off every CB. CA player'
in a region knowing they will come. I'd like to at least give the hard working
low prestidge coaches a chance to score some of these borderline players.
Date: Sun Jul 13 11:15:46 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
Hear hear - although for me its because I thing the potential grades are
misleading and relatively useless.
Date: Sun Jul 13 11:46:58 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Well not totally, but it would at least require a little more skill.
I know when I was a 19 at PSU seasons back, when I was done picking the
recruits I wanted, I usually had 20 or 30 invites left.
I would just go down the list and pick any that had A or B in them.. which is
sort of cheap.
Date: Sun Jul 13 12:07:35 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
I always want to invite at least 100 recruits and spend too much time trying to
get it down to the right mix of 90 considering points, extra point spends, etc.
I never understand how you can have less than 80 targets and backups.
Date: Sun Jul 13 12:11:02 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
You can also look across every region....
Non 18 19 20... don't have quite the same success out of region.
Date: Sun Jul 13 13:41:21 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
By always I meant always, even when I was 16 prestige at KU (3 seasons after
scheduling too hard the first one).
Date: Sun Jul 13 14:05:45 2008
Sender: Jay Schlegel
My first-pass inevitably comes in around 150 potential invitees, even when
trying to keep the non-region guys to a minimum.
Certainly the letter-grades are not that important for veteran coaches. But
CCEL has many many non-veteran coaches. Would removing letter grades help or
hurt them? I too (in my other leagues) have done the initial pass and fill-in
with in-region A/B/C-rated guys I had missed in the first pass, and have also
done this in later rounds. If a new coach has not yet learned how to do this,
would they not be at even more of a disadvantage until they learn the sim
attributes better? Speaking of disadvantage -- imagine the tier-3 newbies
having to do invites without any letter grades, when they are also competing
for talent with the double-dippers?
Date: Sun Jul 13 14:58:46 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
I guess I'd side with Jay and say keep the letter grades. One of my reasons is
that I personally feel letter grades are bubkiss when you factor in the
not-seen intangibles.
I have a DT that I recruited with a this year PT promise. He was B A when I
recruited him and he's B A now. the only attribute he's gone up in is Rb, and
that's been only one point. Basically, I'm saying that the letter grades in
recruiting are more of a guideline than anything truly tangible to their
potential growth. B A guys can get worse, or not develop at all. While D C
guys can have great camps and become B A in the first camp.
That said, it always seems that recruiting still means you have to look closely
at guys at every position to make sure you get guys with potential to grow.
And for me the only time I look out of region is when I have a need at a
position, plus I rarely invite more than 25 guys out of region since I've been
a 19 prestige.
Date: Sun Jul 13 15:25:14 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
I think that this would hurt inexperienced coaches. They are less likely to
know which C rated players can outplay which A rated players.
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:06:12 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Well it might hurt the 4 or 5 brand new coaches who will have a 50% chance of
quitting in 1 season anyway.
but it would help the 50 or 60 intermediate coaches who are trying to get to
the top and willing to put a little work into it.
EPBL got rid of the letter grades seasons ago, with no negative effects I know
of.
Date: Sun Jul 13 21:24:22 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
At least we could get rid of the Potential grades - the current grade is what
it is and I can see some usefulness. The Potential grade however is just not
terribly useful given the level of randomness in player development.
Date: Sun Jul 13 22:42:36 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
I don't see why it would help. As it stands now, they can look at the ratings
and get an idea of how the sim values the player. The ratings are not perfect,
but they are a good general guideline to the inexperienced. I doubt it would
make lower prestige teams recruit better players.
From your first post, it seems like you just want to stick it to the top level
teams. I think that the image of the hard working lower prestige coach sweating
over the keyboard as he meticulously compares the attributes of every player to
try and get that edge versus the big evil high prestige recruiting machine that
has his assistant just click the box next to anything above a C is fantastic,
but not realistic.
Date: Mon Jul 14 04:07:15 2008
Sender: Just Oz Too
I think letter grades help newbies more than oldies.
Even if you were cheap when you had a 19 prestige, AJ :-)
Date: Mon Jul 14 06:08:50 2008
Sender: Red Burley
Eliminating letter grades would only help if we were provided with high school
stats, like EPBL does.
In any case, anyone with any experience knows that letter grades are not that
reliable. How many times have you seen a CA rated fullback with stats like 9sp
6wt 2rs 1ps 1pb 2rb 1in 0st? Or a BA rated defensive tackle at 4sp 10wt 1rs 1ps
2pb 1rb 1in 9st? Both of those examples are vastly overrated, due to one or two
really high secondary attributes. Sometimes I think the sim puts them in to
sucker the people who just go down the list and check off all the As and Bs
they see.
No matter what ratings or stats are available, it still boils down to knowing
what skill sets are desirable for each position, and investing some time and
effort in the recruiting process.
Date: Mon Jul 14 07:04:34 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"At least we could get rid of the Potential grades - the current grade is what
it is and I can see some usefulness. The Potential grade however is just not
terribly useful given the level of randomness in player development."
+1
The sim used to just have a current grade, and most of us old-timers were able
to pick up the grading scale just fine. Sure, seeing what kind of a current-C
prospect the sim predicts may develop into an A could help understand how the
sim, well, projects development potential, but we've all seen enough
projected-A's bust into senior-C's (and vice versa) to become disillusioned
with the real value of these projected grades. They're like the RL player
ratings that come from "national recruiting analysts"--only worthwhile to the
fans for entertainment value. But we're the *coaches*, and should be able to
come up with our own understanding of how attributes function and develop over
time.
Date: Mon Jul 14 07:47:14 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
If letter grades aren't reliable as many of you are saying- why have them?
C A player will turn out better than an F F player, I'd say 90% of the time?
What are there 30 or 40 recruits per regain with an A or B in them? I realize
it would be a travesty if one slipped thru the cracks and a 20 prestidge team
missed their 5th string QB.
the 3 or 4 newbies in DEL, who join each season (and stay), isn't a reason to
give yet another effortless status quo preserving element to the SIM.
Date: Mon Jul 14 07:54:04 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"C A player will turn out better than an F F player, I'd say 90%of the time?"
Uh yeah, because he starts out as a C instead of an F! But do you think a C-A
player really turns out to be an A 90% of the time? I don't.
(Though really, between your last post and your first one, now I can't tell
whether you want to keep or discard letter grades anymore)
Date: Mon Jul 14 09:33:36 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
is that sarcasm...
I definately want them gone.
DEL isn't that great of a time burden. It's not like we are talking World of
Warcraft here. I'd rather reward the harder working GM's a little more.
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:19:45 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
Which means you might just be rewarding the high prestige teams and hurting the
inexperienced coaches that don't have a good grasp of what the attributes mean.
Date: Mon Jul 14 10:42:27 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Who cares, they aren't getting anyone with a B or A, or even a C in the rating
anyway.
By the time they learn to coach, and can actually get a guy with a letter other
than D...... they won't need them
Dolphin Simulation Games is not responsible for the content of posts.
Please report any offensive messages to help@dolphinsim.com.
