Date: Fri Jul 11 21:42:51 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I thought you were joking in your PR.
Your walkon class is better than all the recruiting classes I have had since I
started over (Combined)
you have like 6 walkons better than any players on my team.
I would really like to NEVER hear again that prestidge isn't related to quality
of walkons.
Date: Sat Jul 12 05:32:54 2008
Sender: P Kenny
Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
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Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
Prestige isn't related to quality of walkons.
Date: Sat Jul 12 08:53:00 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
and gas prices aren't that bad...
Date: Sat Jul 12 09:33:45 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
You've already been shown the other great walkons that came with crummy
walkons, including an awesome QB at 10.
Correlation does not equal causation. It takes more than a limited sample size
and imperfect human perception to prove statistical trends.
Date: Sat Jul 12 09:34:01 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
"You've already been shown the other great walkons that came with crummy
*prestige*"
Date: Sat Jul 12 10:38:38 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
The perfect consumer believes what he wants to believe regardless of evidence
to the contrary. Some people here are perfect consumers.
Date: Sat Jul 12 11:08:17 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I love it...
with you guys it's always sample size. It's too small.
Well tell me then, how many seasons do I need- since I have just as many as you
Gregor?
Yeah, Kyle .... it's totall random that a class like that walks onto a 20
prestidge team.
You can use your Jason Sehorn logic, all you want- you won't see a class
like that show up at any 15 school.
Date: Sat Jul 12 12:04:34 2008
Sender: Lord Bremen
I think AJ would still find something to whine about if he went undefeated and
had all A A walkons.
Date: Sat Jul 12 13:13:58 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Claiming someone is whining (see Phil Gramm) when they point out a situation is
a weak, overused tactic.
Where did I say "It's not fair" or "It's too hard" etc, that would be whining.
I just said it is, what it is.
I've had a 19 prestidge and gotten a loaded class at Oregon seasons ago. It's
a joke. I started over under a new account and started from scratch. I'm not
saying "oh please help me"... I'm saying it sure is easier to stay on top then
get there with all the walk on help.
Whats bothersome is people at the top of the status quo so afraid that if
someone points out the obvious something might change.
Date: Sat Jul 12 13:50:31 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
Hey, I've had good walkons every season I've been at Tennessee. If you look
through my prestige during the years, you'll see I've only recently fallen into
the 20 prestige arena. Personally, I've had a few better walkons than my QB
from this season.
Date: Sat Jul 12 14:48:10 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
It has nothing to do with how many seasons/years you've been playing. Its the
fact that no matter how many people give data that refute your constant
assertions that the high prestige teams get the best walk-ons, you don't accept
it. I've made several posts in past seasons laying out my own experiences, and
others such as Doc have done the same, but you only see the facts that fit your
firm conviction that the sim is structured to the unfair advantage of the more
successful coaches.
The same goes for your statements about how its impossible to build a program
up to 20 prestige without the luck of more than a few hot walkons. The fact
that I just did it at KU without a single BA walkon (until this season) nor
more than 1 CA walkon in any season, is apparently not valid. You also reject
Doc's build-up of Tennessee in roughly the same timeframe and under all of the
rules currently in place, as proof that it can be done.
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:23:45 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
Take all the walk-ons in all of Tier 1.
Rank them according to a predetermined scale.
Do a regression analysis to see if there is a correlation with prestige.
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:24:56 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
I don't think you're whining, AJ, I just think you misunderstand probability
and are incorrect.
Date: Sat Jul 12 15:26:17 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
And preferably, do the regression analysis across multiple seasons. Five should
be enough to get a healthy, relevant sample.
Date: Sat Jul 12 20:28:00 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Building a team requires 3 things...
A QB
A TB
some lineman. (mostly defense)
----------------------------------
if you started with any of those 3, I'm not impressed. You manage to recruit
one when your a 15 or 16 prestidge. Then thats a good job.
PS- show me another team with as good a walk on class as NC got.-
It's not coincidence.
Date: Sun Jul 13 01:20:09 2008
Sender: Alaister Pawley
I've had some good walkons in years gone by with rubbish prestige. The past two
seasons at 19 prestige have been my worst by a long, long chalk.
That being said, NC's class is fricking loaded.
Date: Sun Jul 13 06:50:59 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
It must have been a good year for NC HS football:
M.Calhoun TB Fr 6 4 5 1 1 1 2 3 6 -- C A TB
B.Tylka FB Fr 4 7 3 2 4 3 2 8 10 -- C A FB
M.Sullivan TE So 0 7 1 3 3 8 5 5 9 *- B A OL
S.Herman C Fr 0 5 1 3 6 3 2 2 9 -- D C OL
N.Walker OT Fr 1 5 1 1 7 2 4 10 9 -- C B OL
M.Andreu OT Fr 0 7 1 3 6 2 2 1 11 *- C C OL
A.Ashbaugh DT Fr 0 8 6 1 2 4 1 2 7 -- C A DT
(NC State, 13 prestige)
Date: Sun Jul 13 07:02:44 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
And it hasn't been mentioned yet, but this 14-prestige group isn't half bad:
T.Fraga QB Fr 3 0 1 6 2 1 2 0 6 -- D C QB
D.Tadlock TB So 0 2 7 7 1 2 8 1 14 *- C B WR
S.Bransom TB Fr 3 0 5 3 2 1 1 7 9 R- D D TB
S.Levine FB Fr 2 2 4 2 5 4 1 2 5 -- D C FB
T.Sierpien OG Fr 2 10 2 3 1 6 2 3 10 R- C A TE
B.Murga OT Fr 0 1 1 2 6 6 1 0 7 R- D C OL
D.Vuljanic ILB Fr 0 3 6 1 6 5 3 0 9 -- C B ILB
B.Horton PK Fr 5 7 11 R- C A PK
Now sure, if we're looking at projected letter-grades as the be-all end-all
this group isn't full of world-beaters, but I see a 6-Ps QB (both my pro
prospect QBs started out as 6's), a very interesting TB prospect (I believe
it's you AJ who says one QB and one TB is all you need to build a program),
plus two more likely position starters and a stud PK (another key position that
can be hard to recruit).
Date: Sun Jul 13 08:43:32 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I do beleive that....
You can put the rest of it together from a hodge podge, though D-line can be
tough to get.
However, QB and RB is straight up. There aren't many tricks you can pull, no
different styles of players.
Look at the crap at PSU.
W.Lewis QB So 0 2 2 5 3 2 5 1 13 -- ----S D C QB
T.Fraga QB Fr 3 0 1 6 2 1 2 0 6 -- ---- D C QB
I thought Lewis would make it, that 5In, 5PS is what I
recruited him with. Unfortunately, he hasn't improved at all.
Fraga (a walk on of course), could make it to 8Ps 4IN in which
case he'd certainly be serviceable.
My RB's are another story, I have been trying desperately for 3 season, to get
some kind of runner.
J.Hand TB Jr 1 1 8 2 2 2 1 4 13 -- *S C C TB
D.Tadlock TB So 0 2 7 7 1 2 8 1 14 -- *- C B WR
O.Nye TB Fr 3 1 6 3 1 1 1 0 11 -- *S D C TB
R.Randall TB Sr 6 4 5 1 2 2 1 0 10 -- *S C C FB
M.Palmer TB Sr 5 2 5 3 1 2 3 0 13 -- *S D C TB
T.Cahill TB So 5 1 5 1 1 1 3 0 6 -- *- D C TB
S.Bransom TB Fr 3 0 5 3 2 1 1 7 9 -- R- D D TB
That is just a giant pile of manure. Tadlock Walked On
(of course again) and is the best of the group. The rest
just seem to stink.
Point being, there aren't a lot of tricks you can pull to
finding a serviceable RB/QB.... they are very straightforward.
Date: Sun Jul 13 08:44:03 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Caery... PS change the name of my CFL team!!!!!!
Date: Sun Jul 13 11:02:53 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
I do agree that having a QB and a TB are a huge step in building a winner, and
that it's almost impossible to get those through recruiting from sub-17
prestige.
Date: Sun Jul 13 13:49:15 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
There is no connection between prestige and quality of walk-ons other than the
Tier you are in. Repeat that several times. Andy has stated that the sim is
programmed that way and anyone who has actually collected data on their own
team's walk-on classes over several seasons can verify that - several have. You
even took a stab at proving this with single-season data:
http://www.dolphinsim.com/board/Football/msg123776.shtml
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