Date: Wed Apr 30 08:04:31 2008
Sender: Jim Slick
I am having a lot of trouble understanding what is important and what isn't. In
the game with Toledo, New Mexico was beaten by throwing to backs. These guys
have very little "PS". On several key third down situations a PS 1 back makes
diving 10+ yard catches while he is "blanketed or well covered."
On the forum it has been said and corroborated that speed is not all in the
passing game yet these fast no PS guys tore me up
The game plan was based on the fact these guys have no hands. They beat us. My
linebackers are slow but they have PS of 4 and 7 with and intel of 7 and 6. We
got our lunch eaten.
In the third down situations above, I was keying pass. One was 2-man one was
2-zone—I don’t have the others at the moment
So what matters? Help.
Date: Wed Apr 30 08:13:46 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
You can't get too caught up in the results of two plays. It could be that the
odds of both completions were very low and the other team just got lucky.
But there are a lot of factors that go into the odds of a pass being completed.
The SPD and INT of the receiver vs. the defender effects how much separation
he gets and the QB's PS (and some PB, I think, but I could be wrong on that
one) decides how good of a throw it is.
If the receiver gets open and a good throw is made, even a low-PS receiver has
a good chance to make the catch.
Date: Wed Apr 30 08:18:03 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
Were you blitzing? And what offensive formation were they running?
Sometimes it seems that a low PS TB with speed can get those passes if the QB
has some good PS or INT. What I have noticed is that playing defense against
teams that like to pass to the TB is difficult. Usually the best thing to do
is assure you have the right LB lined up on the side of the receiving backs
route and be sure not to blitz him. After that I think it helps to have a
speedy LB but I don't know how much that actually matters.
Date: Wed Apr 30 08:18:19 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
If your new- bad isn't as bad as you would think and good isn't as good as you
would think.
(I think it's a flaw) but nonetheless-
For a WR
A 0 speed is not the slowest player in DEL.
A 0 speed would be the slowest WR in the league, which is still faster than
many.
So a high speed, low PS, WR will still catch passes.
--------------
one other note, 75% of the passing game is the QB, IMO. So a good QB and
crappy WR's will still look good.
Date: Wed Apr 30 11:07:21 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
"If your new- bad isn't as bad as you would think and good isn't as good as
you
would think."
Except for QBs. A 10 PS, 10 INT QB is an unstoppable god.
Date: Wed Apr 30 11:31:10 2008
Sender: Jim Slick
First of all thank each for responding.
Doc I was not blitzing (maybe I should have been) and they were going from a
proset--split backs.
I am just trying to figure out which is most important -- speed or ps.
Thanks
Date: Wed Apr 30 11:36:17 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
"I am just trying to figure out which is most important -- speed or ps."
The reason this game is so great is that there isn't a real answer to that. We
don't know for sure, and even then it's situational.
Date: Wed Apr 30 13:52:24 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
I sort of agree with Kyle, but I feel the defense you play, combined with the
attributes you have at each position, including strong or weak alignment,
attributes to the success of your defense. That sounds very simplistic, but it
comes down to the types of players you have in these situations. Essentially,
right players, right defensive package, and you'll be able to affect those TB
pass plays.
Date: Wed Apr 30 15:26:10 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
There is a link titled "Sortable list" above the roster tables on your team's
roster page. When you click that it takes you to a page where you can sort and
evaluate your players attributes. At the bottom of that page are several
buttons that will fill in the sim's default attribute weightings for each
position. Those give you a fair idea how important the sim thinks each
attribute is for every position - and how your, and your opponent's, players
match up relative to that weighting is a major input in the sim's determination
of the outcome of each play.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:10:06 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I never cared much for the default attributes...
but when I first started I lived on that sort page.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:23:52 2008
Sender: Jim Slick
Gregor,
Thanks much--If the computer thinks these are "proper" attribute levels chances
are I should pay attention to them -- I neveer knew what the page was for and
really just overlooked it. Thanks again, I think it helps. Does it set up my d
for me:)
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:27:02 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
for the record RS for Linebackers is a heck of a lot more important than 25%.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:27:07 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
for the record RS for Linebackers is a heck of a lot more important than 25%.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:27:09 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
for the record RS for Linebackers is a heck of a lot more important than 25%.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:27:18 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
for the record RS for Linebackers is a heck of a lot more important than 25%.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:41:52 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
I'm not sure about percentages and whatnot, but I do believe RS in LBs is
generally overrated.
You need an overall level of tackling in your front seven, but if you get it
from your DTs, you can afford more athletic linebackers.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:58:45 2008
Sender: Jim Slick
AJ,
In my case, since my D line misses alot of tackles my lbs better be able to so
in my case I agree for sure. I think the sort page just gives some idea of what
the sim uses to evaluate play -- the page seems to confirm some things I have
felt for a while. But yes, since most d linemen (mine anyway) seem to miss
tackles the LB had better be good at it. This is part of what got me in trouble
in the last game. My fast guys don't tackle as well as my slower guys. My
slower guys have better skills Ps and RS but they still got picked apart. I
guess I'll try going with speed this time. And watch the RB dance over and
around them:) We aren't very good I'm afraid.
Date: Wed Apr 30 20:19:19 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
RS for LBs is very important. Add in speed and size and you're LBs will
perform well. In my experience those three qualities make a LB good and can
even negate the need for PS and RB/PB.
A slow LB can play well, but his RS, Int and PB/RB should be greater to help
him perform better.
Date: Wed Apr 30 23:54:53 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
I agree with Kyle. I have worked out a sliding scale of attribute trade-offs
I'll accept at each position that seems to yield similar stats - and for a LB,
you can trade Sp, Wt, and RB against Rs.
From the cumulative performance of my various players since I started playing
(note - not adjusted for various tweaks and changes Andy has made but
relatively consistent and based on about 5 real years of playing):
For a LB versus Tier I competition, Rs=5 yields about 55% tackles made, Rs=7
about 64% and Rs=9 about 70%. Sp is a major factor for OLBs with Wt/RB slightly
less important. The converse applies for ILBs.
As AJ implied, you will develop your own way of valuing attributes with more
experience and based on your own preferences. Don't believe that the top rated
Default player at one position is always better than a lower rated player.
Try to think of every play outcome as a role of the dice where the dice are
weighted based on the sim's "secret sauce" evaluation of the probablility of
each step of a play, and each matchup.
So, a Sp=5/Ps=1/In=5 TB against a Sp=2/Ps=5/In=2 LB has a probability of
getting open based on Sp and In (think route running quality) and then a chance
of catching the ball based on how open he is + Ps (hands, using the body to
shield the ball, etc.) and modified by the probability that the LB can defend
the pass given the separation + his Ps (seeing the ball, getting his hands into
the right position to bat it away, timing) That's not exactly accurate but good
enough.
And always remember, even a 0/1/1 guy has a slight chance of catching a ball
against a 10/10/10 defender and it WILL happen in some game some season.
Date: Thu May 1 08:38:55 2008
Sender: Jim Slick
I want to thank all of you who have responded--there has been some very good
information from each of you--thanks.
Of course more is welcomed :)
Date: Thu May 1 08:56:43 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
I don't know, my experience has shown me that my best OLBs have speed greater
than or equal to 5, weight greater than or equal to 3 and tackle greater than
or equal to 8. The PB/RB qualities are a bonus and intelligence is nice but
those other qualities have landed me a few All American OLBs none of them being
top pro prospects. However, I should note that I play an aggressive style of
defense based around my LBs.
An OLB for me could look like
7 3 8 2 2 2 4
that would work well for me. I've had guys like this before have 10 sacks in a
season. Then again I don't like to play defense sitting back waiting to see
what the offense does. I like to attack.
Date: Thu May 1 09:53:36 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I've had All Pro's like this
OLB 0 5 9 6 2 2 8 2
Point is, it all depends on your style of defense.
You will find DEL gets more complex the longer you play.
When I first started at first I thought it was complicated, then after a season
I thought I had it all figured out, then I realized the caveats and quirks make
it very complex.
I think it's the best Football SIM on the web, and I'm always looking.
Date: Thu May 1 10:07:55 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
"I've had All Pro's like this
OLB 0 5 9 6 2 2 8 2
Point is, it all depends on your style of defense."
Agreed. I'm not saying I don't like a LB like this, it's just that I've seen
teams who believe that is the *only* type of linebacker that can work. First,
make sure they have 9 or 10 RS, then get as much WT as possible, then hope for
PB/RB, then SPD, then PS.
I've got a pet theory I've been working on that the ratio of stats that go into
the success of a tackle differs wildly on different parts of the field.
Date: Thu May 1 11:24:38 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I've had some 0 and 1 weighters lately do suprinsgly well.
Date: Thu May 1 16:40:06 2008
Sender: Loren Smith
One of my current linebackers is in his 3rd year of starting; I'm still not
sure if I like him all that much...I feel like he underachieves when you
consider his skills. So, maybe his lack of speed and small size are outweighing
his other attributes (of course, it is always dangerous to base one's opinion
on a sample of one). Pass coverage of 9, 10, or 11 the past three seasons and
I don't feel he really does all that well covering tight ends and slot
receivers.
R.Consolo OLB Sr 2 1 9 11 6 6 8 4 20 A A
Current Season (one game against the #1 North Carolina team)
Name TA Tck Fmb TfL Sck PA Bat Int DP Avg Pos
R.Consolo 15 10 0 0 0 5 1 0 79 66.7 OLB
First three years:
Team TA Tck Fmb TfL Sck PA Bat Int Avg
TXTc 118 72 1 0 1 37 11 2 61.0
TXTc 106 55 0 0 0 31 19 0 51.9
TXTc 69 33 0 0 1 26 9 0 47.8
TXTc 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0
---- 293 160 1 0 2 94 39 2 54.6
Date: Thu May 1 17:57:25 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
I'd love to be able to cry that an AA with like 5 plus attributes isn't all
that good.
This time next year I'll be lucky to have 3 serviceable linebackers to even put
together a defense.
Date: Thu May 1 19:36:12 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Loren...
For a college Linebacker I'd say he is way underachieving. I don't care what
his weight is.
I had a 1 weight linebacker in the final 10 or whatever last year in someone's
PR/
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