Date: Tue Apr 8 13:50:26 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
Alright. Where's the recruiting countdown? Some excitement we're seeing about
walkons coming Friday....
I know some of you guys are old and tired. It's hard to get excited about
anything, getting out of bed hurts, the music is too loud, 45 mph is the right
speed for the left lane on the interstate and so forth, but we all have that
same nervous excitement about the prospect of having some freak walkons that
give us a little bit of room to relax our nerves for recruiting, so why haven't
we seen anything about the best time in all of DEL?
I'm afraid this is unacceptable.
Date: Tue Apr 8 14:44:52 2008
Sender: Chris Oaks
There once were decrepit old louts
Who were too feeble to jump up and shout
With walkons approaching
They couldn't get excited 'bout coaching
Cuz their viagra would make them pass out
Date: Wed Apr 9 08:47:24 2008
Sender: Just Oz
I'm having so much trouble with allergies that I'm just trying to stay awake.
I did get ECHL invites entered into the system and EPBL is ending their draft
on Friday as well which will generate more work.
Syracuse for their part could use a walk on Kicker .. say a 7x4 :-) and a
couple of OL.
Date: Wed Apr 9 09:16:36 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Penn State needs the following positions... and I mean starters- which means
walk-ons because my 14 or 15 recruiting won't be getting it done.
QB
RB
WR (at least one)
OL (at least one)
DT
how is that for a need? Or else we are headed for a sub .500 season.
Date: Wed Apr 9 10:45:50 2008
Sender: Holger Ehehalt
19 graduates, so I need help everywhere including at QB (starter needed), one
good QB walkon would spare me a lot of pressure.
Date: Wed Apr 9 13:34:13 2008
Sender: James Conroy
Walkons? What's a walkon?
Date: Wed Apr 9 14:55:32 2008
Sender: Brian Pate
Anything on defense, LB most importantly, and WRs would be my top two. O-line
is always nice and CB and/or SF would be helpful too.
Date: Wed Apr 9 15:15:40 2008
Sender: Alaister Pawley
QB, RB, DL, CB
The four things I'm always nervous about on any roster.
My main nervousness is have I done enough to get to 20 prestige...
Date: Wed Apr 9 15:20:48 2008
Sender: Chris Oaks
With Auburn and Michigan State losing coaches with high coach ratings, I'd say
your jump to 20 prestige is pretty much assured.
Date: Wed Apr 9 15:22:08 2008
Sender: Chris Oaks
Oh, and offensive line. Just one is all I ask for.
But two or three would be nice.
Date: Wed Apr 9 16:26:11 2008
Sender: Red Burley
I could use a QB. Wondering what my prestige will be in my new digs . . .
Date: Wed Apr 9 16:52:07 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
Wow, was Matlock over finally?
Just playing with y'all.
If the DEL gods could bless me with a couple D linemen, a SF, O-line and CB, I
would be happy.
I too wonder if I have gotten close to being a 20 prestige. Maybe this will be
the year.
Time to start the sacrifices. Where to find the sacrificial virgins these
days?
Date: Thu Apr 10 06:45:49 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
Am I the only one hoping for a couple of punters and about 7 TEs?
Date: Thu Apr 10 08:37:24 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I could use a bunch of these guys
7 2 1 1 1 2 1 1 1 D-C OLB
Date: Thu Apr 10 22:21:13 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
There is no recruiting this season folks. Just another week off after we get
our walkons.
Seriously - I want guys just like AJ wants!
Date: Thu Apr 10 22:33:30 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Seriously, it's been a long time since I've had a great walk on class.
I need this one.
The QB or the RB.... just give me one, because I sure won't get what I need
thru recruiting with my prestidge.
Date: Fri Apr 11 08:02:20 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
Just two great walkons would help. I can get by with some decent recruiting
and development.
Does anyone know if it's this Monday that is that one weird day when PRs are
rewarded on a Monday?
Date: Fri Apr 11 11:55:17 2008
Sender: Just Oz
tick tick tick .... I need a couple of OL and a good QB prospect
Date: Fri Apr 11 12:06:19 2008
Sender: Just Oz
Well, I got D/Cs .. not complaining some are okay, but UConn (who none of the
new coaches took) and L-Ville really pulled 'em in.
A B/A each and some C/A C/B to go with it.
I did get a kicker and a punter though so that's always good.
Date: Fri Apr 11 12:08:11 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I didn't get crap---
now lets see what all the 20 prestidge walk ons look like and listen to the
misguided garble of how it's all random.
Date: Fri Apr 11 12:25:55 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
5588 T.Neely OG Fr 0 9 1 3 3 5 1 4 6 -- ------ -- C A OL
5619 R.Weaver OLB Fr 6 4 2 1 4 3 4 2 10 -- ------ -- D C OLB
5617 S.Benguhe DT Fr 1 8 1 2 1 6 1 0 6 -- ------ -- C B DT
5626 S.Palefsky DE Fr 0 7 1 1 5 2 1 0 9 -- ------ -- D C DE
5651 S.Salzmann DE Fr 1 4 1 1 3 6 1 9 9 -- ------ -- D C DE
Could have been much worse. And this was with 11 prestige.
Date: Fri Apr 11 13:19:21 2008
Sender: Chris Oaks
Got a couple of nice DL/ILB prospects. Allison will be a nice addition to our
run-stopping ...
T.Allison DT Fr 1 9 2 1 1 7 3 1 9 -- ------ -- C A DT
G.Earl DT Fr 0 7 6 1 1 3 2 0 6 -- ------ -- C B DT
And I will never complain about OL types ...
T.Brinkley C Fr 0 8 1 1 6 1 1 2 7 -- ------ -- C B OL
A.Griffis OG Fr 0 1 1 1 6 6 2 4 6 -- ------ -- D C OL
G.Warren TE Fr 2 3 1 5 5 4 5 1 7 -- ------ -- C B TE
Date: Fri Apr 11 13:20:37 2008
Sender: Chris Oaks
Oh, and that was with 10 prestige.
Date: Fri Apr 11 13:33:46 2008
Sender: Alaister Pawley
With 19 prestige I got nothing. Absolutely nothing. To be fair, I was due some
bad luck with walkons.
The real bummer was not making it to 20 prestige. I must have been close based
on the number of points.
Date: Fri Apr 11 18:42:45 2008
Sender: Brian Pate
Hard to complain about this class...
C.Mizen QB Fr 0 7 1 7 6 1 2 4 9 C A QB
S.Lussier QB Fr 3 1 3 6 2 1 2 2 6 D C QB
B.Mather FB Fr 4 2 5 2 4 3 2 0 8 D B FB
J.Hannon FB So 4 8 2 2 1 3 1 2 5 D C FB
A.Osorio WR Fr 6 5 1 5 1 1 3 7 9 C B WR
W.Gutierrez WR Fr 7 1 2 5 1 1 1 6 6 C B WR
A.Greenway CB Fr 2 3 1 5 1 1 3 3 6 F D CB
M.McKenna CB Fr 1 1 1 7 2 1 1 5 7 F D CB
A.Howes OLB Fr 2 1 7 2 2 2 3 0 7 D C ILB
F.Kavuru OLB Fr 4 4 5 1 1 1 1 9 9 D C ILB
T.Russell DT Fr 2 8 7 2 3 1 1 9 7 B A DT
J.Metheny DT Fr 1 6 3 3 4 1 3 7 9 D C DT
K.Kesslering DE Fr 2 6 2 3 4 3 2 0 9 D C DE
Outside of the CBs and a couple of mediocre FBs, the only walk-on I'm forced to
cut to open out scholie room is a DC QB (with potential) unless I find someone
else to ax, not bad at all....
Date: Fri Apr 11 20:15:41 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
For 80% of CCEL Brian's walk on class is better than what they will get.
I had a class like that at Oregon once.
For anything below 19 prestige walk ons are way more important than recruits
Date: Sat Apr 12 17:08:36 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
That's a tired old record you're playing AJ. In my 8 season climb back up to 20
prestige and top 10 team talent with KU (from being about #64 and low 16
prestige) I had all of 1 season where my walkons were even at the same level as
my recruits. I had 6 seasons at 15-18 prestige and would have been able to move
up even faster had I not made stupid scheduling and coaching mistakes the first
couple of seasons.
Date: Sat Apr 12 20:34:21 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
It's a tired old record because it's true.
lets keep that class he just posted
- and see how many non 19's and 20's can beat it this season.
Date: Sat Apr 12 20:59:44 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
I know I haven't had solid walkon classes that beat it specifically, but I have
had individuals that more than made up for the difference of lower prestige
recruiting.
Date: Sat Apr 12 21:18:55 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
a CA QB, & a BA DT
lets see what the lowest prestidge team is that can snag the equivalent.
I say no one under 19 gets either.
Date: Sun Apr 13 05:12:47 2008
Sender: E J Rue
LSU got four that will play at the school.
P.Campbell OT Fr 0 6 2 3 5 4 2 1 7 C B OL T.Alexis C Fr 0
8 3 1 6 3 3 5 8 C A OL
P.Kim OLB Fr 3 2 6 3 5 4 4 1 7 C A ILB
K.Davis DT Fr 0 9 3 2 4 2 2 5 8 C A DT
Date: Sun Apr 13 09:22:21 2008
Sender: Johnny Gunn
I really needed a WR, only have 3 true ones on my team, I get ZERO WRs, wtf?
J.Gotel WR Sr 4 1 3 9 5 3 3 0 15 C B
B.Messina WR Fr 9 4 1 6 1 2 2 0 8 C A
J.Gintz WR So 4 1 3 7 1 3 1 7 9 C C
This is what I have going into recruiting, & for the 2nd straight year, my
region has crap for WRs, this pisses me off. So, I have 3 really good QBs,
don't need another one to walk on.
J.Correll QB Jr 4 6 6 6 4 1 6 0 12 B A
A.Correa QB So 0 2 1 8 2 1 5 5 12 B A
A.Sherrod QB Fr 0 3 1 6 2 1 4 8 11 C B
I get this gem, not going to complain but about him, but just seems stupid he
would pick Iowa with 3 similar QBs at the same age.
J.McCullum QB So 10 7 2 6 7 3 5 1 8 *- B A
The walk on aspect of this game is unrealistic at best, I needed a WR badly,
didn't even get 1. You would think walk ons would see that WR is a shallow
position for me, guess not.
H.Bowen ILB Fr 3 2 7 1 4 1 1 4 8 R- D B
S.Jones OLB Fr 1 3 6 2 8 5 3 0 10 R- C A
At least these are need positions, overall a crap walk on class. Seeing Pate's
walk on class makes my stomach turn, before walk ons we had similar WR needs,
he gets 2 very solid prospects,
grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:44:19 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"lets keep that class he just posted
- and see how many non 19's and 20's can beat it this season."
So basically you're saying nobody under 19 prestige can get better than TWO
A-rated recruits (and throw in a couple B's for good measure)? That's a nice
walk-on class for sure, but most tier-1 (and some tier-2) teams can do better
in recruiting.
Check out last year's Day One signings to see how many lower-prestige teams
landed multiple A/B rated recruits:
http://www.dolphinsim.com/ccoach/ccel/news/day1/
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:04:33 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
yeah Kevin, I'm going to go thru and try to figure that out. right.
Johnny- Did you see K-State?
V.Parkins QB Jr 6 1 6 9 9 4 3 2 13 -- ----*S A A QB
M.Collett QB Sr 4 8 5 9 8 5 3 4 19 -- ----*S A A QB
A.Lee QB So 0 7 6 7 4 2 8 2 15 -- ----*S A A QB
D.Jamerson QB Jr 9 1 1 7 3 1 3 7 11 -- ----*S C B QB
D.Vick QB Fr 1 1 6 7 5 1 2 2 9 -- ----*S C B QB
Collett hasn't played in two years, but he's content to graduate like that even
though he's probably a top 10 QB and would start at 90% of all schools.
Essentially there are 4 guys who will never play, but none of them transfer.
The whole transfer process is worthless.
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:16:07 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
I actually agree with you on something here AJ - the transfer system could be
made more realistic although not completely given the reduced rosters and
scholarship numbers we deal with. Why don't you propose some specific changes
in the sim to address it?
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:27:53 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"yeah Kevin, I'm going to go thru and try to figure that out. right."
Okay, well you could start out with sub-19 prestige #1 recruiting class UCLA: 2
A+ recruits, 3 A's, 7 B's. Then a little later you've got tier-2 Memphis: 3
A's, 6 B's. Shoot, Michigan's own recruiting class from last year is better
than their solid walk-on group this year.
Date: Mon Apr 14 10:11:46 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
What is an A+ recruit?
a BA, a CA, a DC on day 3? It doesn't tell you.
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:01:08 2008
Sender: Max Dornan
Miss St Walkons
6761 J.Colbert WR Fr 3 2 2 5 1 1 4 0 8 -- ------ -- D C WR
6745 A.Driscoll TE So 9 3 2 3 1 2 4 9 8 -- ------ *- C B WR
6759 K.King C Fr 0 2 2 1 4 7 2 0 7 -- ------ -- D C OL
6738 M.Waite C Fr 4 1 1 1 5 6 1 9 7 -- ------ -- D C TE
6729 M.Horton OG Fr 4 5 2 3 5 5 3 2 5 -- ------ -- C A TE
6736 S.Finnegan OG Fr 0 7 4 3 4 4 2 1 8 -- ------ -- C B FB
6765 M.Palmer OG So 0 9 2 2 2 4 1 0 8 -- ------ *- D C OL
6772 T.Montes CB Fr 4 0 1 5 2 2 4 7 7 -- ------ -- D C CB
6740 G.Bingham ILB Fr 2 2 6 1 6 3 2 0 7 -- ------ -- C B ILB
6786 J.Woods ILB Fr 4 1 3 1 4 4 4 6 9 -- ------ -- D C ILB
6794 B.Hardy OLB Fr 0 3 2 5 3 1 2 8 7 -- ------ -- F D OLB
BR 6794 B.Hardy OLB Fr 0 3 2 5 3 1 2 8 7 -- ------ -- F D OLB
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:08:31 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"What is an A+ recruit?"
(This isn't in the help files, it comes from many seasons of paying close
attention to recruiting in several college leagues)
It's the same on any recruiting day, and while it does come before training
camps and is therefore subject to revision (as with walk-on letter grades), an
A+ recruit is basically a player rated by the sim as a "high-A" potential
letter grade. So basically, a B-A or high C-A, and most other C-A and some C-B
recruits are rated A. The two walk-ons you like at Michigan are probably both
A+ caliber, but of the others all I see are a few B's.
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:22:34 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I'd really like to keep subjectivity out of it.
all I asked was to see who can beat that walk on class with their recruits.
The letters are there- it's not subjective.
I'm sure someone can show me how wrong I am next Monday.
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:37:34 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"I'd really like to keep subjectivity out of it."
My point was that dozens and dozens of DEL college recruiting seasons makes my
observations pretty darn close to objective: go ahead and compare Monday's DEL
player ratings with their individual letter grades, and you'll see there's a
pretty good correlation between and "A" rated recruit and his "A" projected
letter grade -- and there are lots of non-19/20 teams every year who get better
players/classes than that couple of top-notch walk-ons.
Date: Mon Apr 14 14:42:17 2008
Sender: Eric Opperman
Kneel, suckers!
H.Chaney TB Fr 5 1 5 1 1 3 3 0 11 -- D C TB
D.Reece TB Fr 1 2 6 1 2 1 1 2 8 *- D C TB
M.Johnson FB Fr 1 3 3 1 5 4 1 2 9 -- D C OL
W.Gabric WR Fr 3 0 4 4 1 1 2 5 7 -- D C WR
T.Morris TE Fr 2 4 1 2 2 3 1 6 8 -- F D TE
S.Castaneda TE Fr 6 2 1 1 1 1 3 2 7 -- F D TE
E.Estefan SF Fr 6 1 2 3 1 1 3 7 9 -- D C CB
D.Samarro SF Fr 2 1 5 2 1 1 2 2 9 -- F D OLB
J.Marbella ILB Fr 3 5 5 2 2 2 2 4 9 -- D C ILB
B.Jenkins ILB So 3 5 6 2 3 3 3 0 13 *- C C ILB
D.Rodriguez ILB Fr 3 2 4 2 2 2 1 3 7 -- F D ILB
J.Bryant ILB So 2 4 4 1 2 2 3 1 7 *- F D ILB
E.Bryant OLB Fr 2 4 5 2 1 1 1 0 6 -- F D ILB
B.Petersen PN Fr 4 2 8 -- F F PN
This may be my best group -- Chaney, Gabric, Marbella, and Jenkins are
virtually locks to stick. Reece and all of the defensive players probably
would have earlier in my tenure.
So forgive me for not feeling sorry for AJ only getting two walk-ons with B
potential...
Date: Mon Apr 14 16:40:01 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
Are we still talking about Pate's class at UofM?
I've beat that walkon class in recruiting with a 17 prestige.
The B A DT is one of those guys that could go either way but he looks like many
players I've had walkon that stagnate after a bad camp. He could develop at
ILB but he's not the greatest DT from the way he looks now.
These were my keepers.
S.Fry TB Fr 5 0 6 1 2 1 2 0 7 -- D B TB
C.Weiss TE Fr 4 4 2 2 5 4 2 0 8 -- C B TE
N.Yost C Fr 3 2 1 1 6 7 2 0 11 -- C B OL
R.Resendez OLB Fr 3 8 6 2 1 1 5 0 8 -- C A OLB
B.Halloran DT Fr 0 9 1 2 4 1 3 9 5 -- C B DT
K.Mitchell PK Fr 6 6 6 *- B A PK
I had to cut ten of the walkons because they were junk, and a former redshirt
walkon had to go because he wasn't developing. But based on the discussion
here, I would say that a number of teams under 19 prestige will land a better
group of guys than this.
Date: Mon Apr 14 16:44:21 2008
Sender: John West
Seriously now...
6305 T.Wood QB Fr 0 4 1 1 1 1 1 2 8 F F QB
6334 J.Sax PN Fr 1 1 9 F F PN
Thanks to my predecessor Bob I had two positions with absolutely nothing and
these two walked into secure roster spots. I don't think I'll be able to cut
them until after I recruit which could force me to turn away a couple of
players in round 1. Who isn't a 1 1 punter? Get out of here. Clowns.
Date: Mon Apr 14 19:19:58 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
yep Doc I'm sure you have,,,
just like every 20 prestidge team can tell us how easy it is, and fair, and
that you too can get any player, and that having 6 AA QB's on the same team is
realistic.
I'm doing a big article on recruiting this year, there won't be any dispute
after it's done
Date: Mon Apr 14 20:00:46 2008
Sender: John Henry
Life's not fair....Why would Del be any different
I John Henry am a 20 prestige coach.
Look at my record the last 12 seasons...
W L T Team
10 4 0 IASt
9 4 0 IASt
13 1 0 IASt
10 3 0 IASt
5 7 0 IASt
7 5 0 IASt
13 0 0 IASt
9 3 0 IASt
4 7 0 IASt
6 6 0 IASt
9 3 0 IASt
7 5 0 IASt
5 6 0 IASt
7 5 0 IASt
How did I get to 20 prestige...Darn lucky. Where did the 13-0 championship
season come into play. Still don't know, but I did spend some time on
recruiting, PR's and winning bowl games. Planning and patience will pay off.
Can you build a program into a perennial contender...absolutely yes. Been there
done that.
What is the key to success. Patience and mentoring. Steal the top coaches
advice and make it your own. I watched the Schlegal's, Rhodes Cullens and
others of the sim and figured out or outright stole what they did successfully
and then made it my own. Instead of railing at the flaws of the sim (Yes I
still do my share, see draw play) I also took and applied the defects and
quircks and used them to the best advantage. Is it always matching real life,
No, but it wins ball games...in this sim.
Spemd some time and really listen to those that have come before. Best and only
advice I can give.
Date: Mon Apr 14 22:28:06 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Yeah..
I've beaten everyone their. I've beaten Cullen, and you a few times to John.
The gameplanning/coachig in the Pro's is the same SIM as college, I don't feel
I have a problem with that.
However-
There is not much of a key to success in recruiting. Hell, we have letter
grades just to make sure a decent recruit doesn't slip by the dragnets somehow.
Lets see the advice.
- shoot for D-C guys when your lower and hope they pan out
- look for maybe some non-regions
- save some points for day 2
- pick a team that already has key positions
what else? evaluating talent? thats not rocket science.
If you were a 20 prestidge way back 3 or so years ago, your set- and probably
out of touch.
If you have climbed the ladder recently it's a lot of luck. Walk ons are
huge, unbeleivably fortutious. A BA QB or RB can change a teams fortune. Those
are monumentous positions and lets pay attention to who can actually get those
this year.
Your odds of getting one of them thru recruiting is so slim, unless they have a
great camp. Which again is luck.
I know this offends people, but I don't have a problem saying it.
You claw your way up to 17 or 18, then wait for your big walk on class that
gives you your big season.
Date: Tue Apr 15 00:09:08 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
"I know this offends people, but I don't have a problem saying it.
You claw your way up to 17 or 18, then wait for your big walk on class that
gives you your big season."
Doesn't offend me AJ but it just isn't true. You're an excellent gameday coach
and a proven builder of pro teams, and I suspect that is part of your
recruiting problem - because you likely approach recruiting like you do
building a roster in the pro leagues. From my brief experience there, player
development and evaluation is a very different beast than in college and the
same attribute numbers mean very different levels of effectiveness on the
field.
Besides me, Doc, T Cass, Alaister Pawley, Holger, Brian Pate, and Red (at
Auburn of course) have all fairly recently climbed the long ladder to 19/20
prestige and proven it can be done. In my case it was definitely on the back of
recruiting classes and not walk-ons.
Date: Tue Apr 15 06:40:14 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
Others who have "lucked" into 19/20 prestige over the past 3 years: Sloan
Hamilton, Loren Smith, James Conroy, Ostby, Seth Clark ... Johnny Gunn and Neal
McDonald are close. Seriously, the only ones who have been there pretty much
all along are Schlegel, Schoknecht and myself (you can basically include Andy
and Stone and maybe Nichols in this group).
Coaches retire (Griffes), they change schools and have to rebuild (Ellis), they
lose interest and tail off (Thompson), the fact is the highest echelon of CCEL
programs is constantly changing membership and it has never been only (or even
mostly) a matter of luck who gets in.
Date: Tue Apr 15 07:43:53 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
unfortunately no one that I know of has ever tracked which starters were walk
ons and which were recruits when the team made it's big move. So I can't
really refute your statement.
I know at Oregon, when I put them into 10 wins and hit 19- it was a great
walkon class (QB included)- and right before I left PSU and worked them up to
18, both my AA DT's were walkons, my AA DE was a walkon, and my QB was also a
walk on I think.
I'm tracking it all this year, so this conversation can be put to an end.
Date: Tue Apr 15 08:24:39 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
One season of data skewed to fit your bias will not end this conversation. I
have indeed been tracking walkons and recruits in the ACC for CCEL decades, and
the simple fact is that a few nice walkons every year never has a comparable
impact to quality recruiting over an extended period of time.
Assuming most players redshirt, coaches need to bring in 10-12 scholarship
recruits every season. While that annual total does include the few players
who are demanding scholarships after walking-on in previous seasons, tier-1
teams only AVERAGE about 2-3 quality walk-ons per season--that little bit of
luck is not the reason any coach has built up a top-tier program.
Date: Tue Apr 15 09:02:23 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
I do keep track of my team's walkons and recruits: that is why I can make the
assertions I do on this matter and also how I developed my way of evaluating
player potential.
Date: Tue Apr 15 10:21:25 2008
Sender: James Conroy
My luck with walkons has been limited, at best. I was jumping for joy this
season when I got two d-linemen rated BA and a CA. Other than that, I have an
overrated BA tailback and an AA rated o-linemen who are walkons that might see
the field. The rest of my walkons are CC and CB rated players who provide
depth (like Gregor, I track my walkons, and it has also helped me refine my
talent evaluation).
The point is that I built my team through recruiting, not walkons, and I'm sick
to death of listening to all the complaining about walkon quality. I haven't
been blessed with great walkon classes, but I've done fine. Stop whining and
figure out how to get your prestige up and recruit and you'll be fine.
I also started at a 16 prestige at UVA back under the old system where there
were 22 20-prestige teams, so I had to build the program slowly. I think a 16
prestige under the old system would equate to a 14 or 15 in the recalibrated
system.
Date: Tue Apr 15 11:58:59 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"One season of data skewed to fit your bias"
There is nothing "skewed" about looking at a BA recruit and making note of
where he went.
Whats skewed is your interpretation above, using the site PR and saying look
an "A", thats a top signing.
Fine I'll track the top recruits/walkons for a few seasons.
It can't hurt to look at the truth on this topic can it?
Date: Tue Apr 15 12:41:53 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"It can't hurt to look at the truth on this topic can it?"
It just so happens I have tons of ACC data on hand going back for several
years; here's some examples of various seasons' walk-ons versus recruits for
teams in the 15-18 prestige range:
***SEPTEMBER 2006***
BOSTON COLLEGE (16 prestige/Bob)
Walkons & recruits:
K.Lux WR Fr 5 0 1 4 1 1 5 1 8 -- D C WR
S.Sosa WR Fr 7 0 3 3 1 2 1 1 9 -- D C WR
G.Miller WR Fr 6 3 3 4 4 1 2 4 9 -S D B TE
T.Campos C So 0 3 2 1 6 5 3 7 10 *- C C OL
R.Maupin OG Fr 0 8 2 4 8 1 4 0 13 -- C A OL
G.Jacik OT So 1 8 3 3 5 4 5 1 12 -S C A OL
A.Toohey SF Fr 8 1 4 3 1 1 3 0 15 *- C C SF
H.Zucker CB Fr 4 5 1 6 3 2 3 9 7 -S D B CB
M.Kozlovsky ILB Fr 1 3 5 2 1 6 2 9 10 -S D C ILB
J.Davis ILB Fr 4 0 4 3 4 5 2 8 9 -S D C ILB
C.Echeverria DT Fr 0 7 4 2 2 5 2 7 13 -S C B DT
CLEMSON (15 prestige/Bob)
Walkons & recruits:
G.Jennings QB Fr 0 1 2 4 2 1 5 0 9 -S D D QB
T.Gregory TB Fr 0 1 8 1 1 3 1 0 11 -S D C TB
E.Endlich FB So 3 8 3 3 2 4 2 0 14 *- C C FB
D.Moeller WR Jr 9 1 3 2 3 1 5 0 12 -S C C WR
B.Thomas TE Fr 5 4 3 5 4 3 2 3 7 -S C A TE
H.Wells SF Fr 2 1 7 2 1 1 4 8 8 -- D C SF
T.Hubbell ILB Fr 0 1 6 4 5 4 3 2 10 *- D C ILB
C.Hoyt OLB Fr 6 4 6 5 2 2 1 5 10 -S C A OLB
G.Thessing DT Fr 1 9 7 1 1 2 2 10 11 -- B A DT
C.Green DE Fr 3 7 1 1 5 1 1 9 12 -S D C DE
GEORGIA TECH (18 prestige)
Walkons & recruits:
T.Bonnardel FB Fr 0 7 7 1 5 4 1 0 10 -- B A FB
M.Ray WR Fr 9 1 2 5 1 1 2 7 7 -- C A WR
D.Webb WR Fr 5 1 1 5 3 1 2 0 10 -- D C WR
J.McHugh WR Fr 5 1 1 5 1 1 1 0 5 -S D D WR
P.Jamaica C Fr 1 7 2 3 4 2 2 0 12 *- D C OL
J.Monestime C Fr 0 3 2 1 6 7 5 0 10 -S C A OL
J.Noland OG Fr 1 5 1 1 1 6 2 1 9 -S D D OL
R.Seipp OT Fr 0 6 2 2 4 2 3 6 9 -- D C OL
D.LaBatte CB Fr 9 3 3 5 3 3 1 1 9 -- C A OLB
R.Peterson OLB Fr 5 4 4 1 2 2 6 4 9 -- D B OLB
C.Wiet DT Fr 2 8 1 3 2 1 3 2 10 -- D C DT
A.Beck DE Fr 0 8 1 1 7 1 2 1 8 -- C B DE
C.Hurd DE Fr 1 5 1 1 5 5 1 0 10 -- D C DE
K.Anderson PK Fr 7 1 10 -S D C PK
MIAMI (16 prestige)
Walkons & recruits:
C.Gibbs QB Fr 0 5 1 5 2 1 3 3 9 -S D C QB
S.Munger FB So 8 0 4 1 1 4 4 1 13 -S D C TE
B.Caldwell FB So 2 7 3 1 3 5 2 10 9 -S C B FB
F.Dumoulin WR Fr 7 1 5 4 2 1 1 0 9 -S C B WR
B.Loveland WR Fr 7 1 1 5 1 1 1 0 12 -S D C WR
S.Souza TE Fr 3 5 3 1 7 4 4 0 10 -- C A FB
G.Harer TE Fr 6 3 4 4 4 3 3 1 11 -- C A TE
T.Torres TE Fr 6 5 1 5 3 2 1 1 7 -- C B TE
P.Dent TE Fr 3 8 1 3 2 5 5 5 11 -S C A TE
H.Monk C Fr 0 5 2 2 5 2 1 1 8 -S D C OL
R.McCurtis ILB Fr 5 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 9 -- D C OLB
E.Cia ILB Fr 3 5 4 1 1 7 4 3 11 -S C B DT
R.Atienza OLB Fr 0 4 6 8 2 1 4 5 10 -S C B OLB
R.Roland DT Fr 2 9 6 2 2 1 1 5 6 -- C A DT
A.Rausch DT Fr 3 6 4 2 3 4 2 1 10 -S C B DT
B.Singerman DE Fr 1 6 2 1 5 3 1 3 6 -- D B DE
VIRGINIA (18 prestige)
Walkons & recruits:
T.Dudley TB Fr 4 5 7 2 1 1 5 2 11 RS B A TB
P.Connor FB Fr 0 5 5 1 5 3 2 0 11 R- C B FB
T.Witkowski WR Fr 9 1 1 4 2 1 3 0 9 RS C B WR
F.Lloyd TE Fr 5 5 1 3 2 2 2 0 5 R- D C TE
G.Miller SF Fr 8 1 3 3 1 1 2 0 15 -- D C SF
C.Hernandez SF Fr 6 2 5 3 1 1 1 1 6 RS D B SF
S.Tullis CB Fr 9 5 1 5 3 1 1 4 9 RS C A CB
B.Pine ILB Fr 0 2 5 2 5 4 5 3 10 -- D C ILB
T.Corter OLB Fr 3 5 6 2 5 4 3 6 8 -S B A ILB
M.Davis OLB Fr 6 4 5 2 2 1 1 2 10 -- D C OLB
B.Doan OLB Fr 4 2 6 4 3 2 3 2 8 RS C B OLB
A.Downey OLB Fr 0 3 8 7 1 1 1 5 9 R- C B OLB
C.Galarza DT Fr 0 7 4 2 3 1 1 2 7 R- D C DT
R.Ondrey DT Fr 1 9 5 2 3 4 4 1 7 RS B A DT
T.Baggett DE So 0 6 1 2 5 5 4 1 13 *- D C DE
T.Tyler PK Fr 6 6 10 -S C A PK
***FEBRUARY 2007***
BOSTON COLLEGE (16 prestige)
Top walk-ons:
M.Genest QB Fr 3 1 1 6 2 2 4 8 7 C B QB
C.Lin C Fr 0 9 1 3 2 2 2 4 9 D C OL
A.Comerford SF Fr 7 0 6 5 1 1 2 8 7 B A SF
D.Seymour ILB Fr 2 3 6 1 1 4 2 3 6 D C ILB
T.Asimovic DT Fr 0 7 5 2 4 6 5 0 7 B A DT
Recruits:
D.Godwin TB Fr 6 0 5 1 1 1 3 2 5 -S D C TB
T.Zoeller WR Fr 9 4 1 4 1 1 1 8 5 -S C B WR
S.Liberda C Fr 1 0 1 2 7 5 1 0 6 -S D C OL
C.Durant DT Fr 0 8 1 1 1 6 4 9 9 -S C B DT
GEORGIA TECH (16 prestige)
Top walk-ons:
E.Hurtado ILB Fr 3 0 7 3 1 1 2 9 6 D B SF
C.Broderick PN Fr 8 5 14 B A PN
Recruits:
B.Ferreira CB Fr 4 2 1 7 1 1 2 1 10 -S D B CB
J.Guy ILB Fr 0 5 5 1 4 3 1 0 4 -S D C DT
B.Richardson SF Fr 8 0 4 2 1 2 3 1 7 -S C B SF
J.Cattani TB Fr 2 1 6 1 2 1 4 1 8 -S D C TB
M.Hardy ILB Fr 4 2 7 2 2 1 1 0 9 -S D C SF
J.Worden TE Fr 0 1 4 6 5 4 1 4 7 -S D C TE
F.Dolphin QB Fr 0 2 1 6 3 3 1 3 6 -S D C QB
C.Jefferson C Fr 1 6 1 1 5 2 4 6 7 -S D C OL
M.Bacich C Fr 0 6 1 2 6 1 2 8 9 -S D C OL
H.Moncad FB Fr 0 7 2 1 2 3 4 3 7 -S D C OL
M.Zunija C Fr 1 5 2 2 6 2 3 0 10 -S D C OL
A.Ashworth PK So 1 6 11 -S F F PK
***AUGUST 2007***
CLEMSON (16 prestige)
Top walk-ons:
J.Kern QB Fr 1 0 3 6 6 3 1 0 8 -- D C QB
S.McGregor TE Fr 3 9 2 3 4 1 2 5 8 -- C B FB
T.Moses C Fr 3 9 1 1 1 6 1 8 6 -- C A OL
E.Butler OG Fr 0 8 3 1 5 6 1 0 6 -- B A OL
R.Wassermann CB Fr 4 1 2 7 1 1 2 1 9 -- C B CB
E.Corradetti DE Fr 2 9 2 1 1 2 1 2 6 -- D B DT
Recruits:
G.Saucedo TE Fr 7 0 1 3 6 5 4 2 11 RS C A TE
M.Boyle SF Fr 6 2 4 1 3 2 5 8 8 RS D B OLB
W.Chambless C Fr 0 6 3 3 4 3 2 8 7 RS D C OL
C.Gyles WR So 5 1 6 3 1 1 4 0 9 RS C B TB
J.Burke OLB Fr 4 4 6 1 4 3 4 3 11 RS C A ILB
A.Allen FB Fr 1 4 3 1 2 7 3 1 9 RS D C TE
DEL ratings: TE G.Saucedo (A), OLB M.Boyle (B+), FB W.Chambless (B), TB
C.Gyles (B), ILB J.Burke (C+), and FB A.Allen (C)
GEORGIA TECH (18 prestige)
Top walk-ons:
K.Marcus TE Fr 2 4 4 2 2 8 1 0 9 -- C B TE
J.Fishman C Fr 1 6 2 3 4 5 1 2 9 -- C B OL
J.Gonzalez C Fr 1 7 1 1 5 4 2 0 10 -- C B OL
M.Cook SF Fr 7 0 5 4 1 1 3 1 7 -- C A SF
G.Koenig OLB So 7 3 2 5 5 4 2 9 10 *- C B OLB
P.Atienza DT Fr 0 9 6 1 3 1 1 2 5 -- C A DT
B.Ogden DE Fr 0 8 2 1 5 2 2 3 9 -- C B DT
Recruits:
M.Monteil TB Fr 9 3 7 1 1 2 3 0 9 -S A A TB PT
D.Lineberger DT Fr 0 8 6 1 5 3 1 2 8 -S B A DT PT
W.Ramirez QB Jr 0 3 4 7 2 4 8 6 16 -S A A QB PT
D.Aden ILB Fr 1 2 6 2 5 4 1 2 10 RS D C ILB
C.Parke CB Fr 5 0 2 5 1 1 2 6 10 RS D C CB
D.Bernstein OLB Fr 4 1 7 2 1 1 3 0 10 RS D B SF
B.Guindo WR Fr 8 0 1 6 1 1 2 0 7 RS C B WR
J.Lyon SF Fr 9 1 4 1 1 1 2 0 12 RS C B SF
C.Taylor C Fr 0 7 3 3 3 5 1 6 8 RS C B OL
T.Peters PN Fr 6 2 10 RS D C PN
B.Henry TB Fr 1 1 6 3 1 1 3 4 8 RS D C TB
DEL ratings: TB M.Monteil (A+), DT D.Lineberger (A), QB W.Ramirez (A), ILB
D.Aden (A-), CB C.Parke (B), SF D.Bernstein (B), WR B.Guindo (B), SF J.Lyon
(B), C C.Taylor (B), PN T.Peters (B), and TB B.Henry (B)
MIAMI (16 prestige)
Top walk-ons:
K.Lesica TB Fr 6 3 4 1 1 1 1 1 4 -- D C TB
P.Grier OG So 1 5 2 2 4 4 2 5 10 *- D C OL
D.Grove DE Fr 2 8 1 2 6 2 1 0 4 -- C A DE
C.Dyson PK Fr 6 4 8 -- C B PK
Recruits:
A.Levine SF Fr 9 3 4 3 1 1 3 2 12 -S C A SF
W.Keck DE Fr 3 7 5 2 3 3 5 9 13 -S C A ILB
B.Grimmett C Fr 0 6 1 2 4 3 4 0 7 -S D C OL
B.Wyatt OLB Fr 4 4 4 2 1 1 3 4 8 -S D C OLB
P.Cavanaugh TE Fr 4 1 2 1 3 7 2 5 10 -- D C TE
S.Birdsall C Fr 1 5 1 1 3 3 2 0 8 -S F D OL
DEL ratings: SF A.Levine (A-) and ILB W.Keck (B-). Day 2: C B.Grimmett (B-),
OLB B.Wyatt (C+), TE P.Cavanaugh (C+), and C S.Birdsall (C)
VIRGINIA TECH (18 prestige/Bob)
Top walk-ons:
C.Trahyn WR Fr 6 3 3 6 2 1 3 2 6 -- C A WR
R.Yuss OG Fr 1 5 1 3 5 5 2 0 6 -- C B OL
K.Coates OT Fr 0 8 1 2 2 6 3 2 7 -- C A OL
B.Reyes OLB Fr 7 3 4 1 4 3 1 8 7 -- C B ILB
Recruits:
M.Thompson WR Fr 3 7 3 7 1 1 6 2 8 -S C A WR
J.Fox C Fr 2 5 2 2 6 2 4 5 8 -S D C TE
S.Shepherd OG Fr 0 7 1 1 5 3 1 2 12 -S C B OL
S.King DT Fr 2 7 6 2 1 5 1 0 6 -S C A DT
P.Thieme FB Fr 2 3 3 1 4 6 5 9 8 -S C B TE
D.Sosa WR Fr 8 1 2 6 1 1 1 4 8 -S C A WR
P.Wellman PN Fr 6 7 15 -S C A PN
T.Kahn TE Fr 9 1 4 1 3 3 3 1 6 -S C A FB
E.Davis SF Fr 5 1 7 2 1 1 2 1 11 -S C B SF
W.Haug OT Fr 0 7 2 1 5 4 1 5 7 -S C A OL
W.Pico FB Fr 0 3 6 1 6 5 5 5 9 -S C A FB
DEL ratings: WR M.Thompson (A), OG J.Fox (A), C S.Shepherd (A-), DT S.King
(A-), OG P.Thieme (B+), WR D.Sosa (B+), PN P.Wellman (B+), TB T.Kahn (B+), SF
E.Davis (B), OT W.Haug (B), and FB W.Pico (B)
***OCTOBER/NOVEMBER 2007***
(prestige estimated, not recorded)
CLEMSON (prestige ~16)
Walk-ons:
T.Kravitz FB Fr 3 8 2 2 2 2 1 0 4 -- D C FB
T.Nick WR Fr 3 4 2 5 1 1 2 9 7 -- D C WR
D.Grossmann TE Fr 3 0 2 6 5 5 3 0 10 -- C B TE
G.Aster OT Fr 0 7 1 1 5 4 1 6 6 -- C A OL
R.Gibson PK Fr 7 6 6 -- B A PK
Recruits:
A.Mercedes (B), ILB C.Lemay (C-), and OLB T.Burwell (D+)
R.Coleman DE Fr 3 3 4 1 6 5 2 5 11 -S C B ILB
M.Garmire OLB Fr 4 6 5 3 1 2 2 1 9 RS D B OLB
P.McVeigh C Fr 0 4 1 1 6 4 2 2 8 RS D C OL
A.Mercedes OG Fr 1 7 2 3 3 4 1 1 8 RS D C OL
C.Lemay DT Fr 0 3 2 3 5 4 2 1 10 RS F D DE
T.Burwell DE Fr 2 3 1 6 5 4 2 3 7 R- D C OLB
M.Bullock DT Fr 2 5 3 4 5 5 2 0 14 -S C C DE
DEL ratings: ILB R.Coleman (A-), OLB M.Garmire (B+), C P.McVeigh (B), C
A.Mercedes (B), ILB C.Lemay (C-), and OLB T.Burwell (D+)
GEORGIA TECH (prestige ~18)
Walk-ons:
B.Kuna WR Fr 3 0 4 1 6 3 5 2 7 -- D C FB
B.Patrick TE Fr 4 7 2 2 2 3 1 2 7 -- D C TE
B.Lial C Fr 0 0 1 1 7 5 4 0 9 -- D C OL
A.Aldridge OG Fr 3 6 2 1 5 4 3 6 10 -- C B OL
W.Lee CB Fr 2 1 1 5 1 1 3 2 7 -- F D CB
M.Tourino CB Fr 4 1 2 6 2 2 1 2 5 -- D C CB
R.Chatman ILB Fr 1 6 6 1 3 2 2 8 7 -- C B DT
A.Walsh ILB Fr 0 3 5 1 5 4 2 0 9 *- D C ILB
R.Miller OLB Fr 8 0 1 2 4 3 1 0 6 -- F D OLB
P.Kozar OLB Fr 8 4 1 1 2 1 3 0 7 *- D D OLB
C.McKenna DT Fr 3 8 5 1 4 3 2 2 10 -- B A DT
R.Kersbergen DT Fr 0 6 5 1 1 1 4 7 6 -- D C DT
D.Orozco DE Fr 4 6 2 1 6 7 5 3 9 -- B A DE
Recruits:
J.Houston ILB Fr 3 3 6 1 4 3 3 0 10 RS C B ILB
W.Kunz DT Fr 0 4 6 6 4 3 1 0 5 RS C B ILB
K.McCullum QB Fr 4 1 2 7 1 4 3 0 9 RS C B QB
J.Moorehead OT Fr 0 8 2 3 6 1 1 0 10 RS D B OL
B.Foster FB Fr 4 7 3 1 1 2 4 1 7 RS D B FB
J.Rutledge PK So 2 6 15 *S F F PK
DEL ratings: ILB J.Houston (A), ILB W.Kunz (A), QB K.McCullum (A-), C
J.Moorehead (A-), FB B.Foster (B-), and PK J.Rutledge (F)
MIAMI (prestige ~16)
Walk-ons:
B.Rumann QB Fr 7 6 2 4 5 1 2 1 9 -- D C QB
F.Pardue WR Fr 1 1 6 2 1 3 2 0 9 -- D C TB
D.Gunnarsson WR Fr 1 3 5 1 1 2 3 0 9 -- D D FB
P.Townsend C Fr 1 5 2 1 4 4 1 1 9 -- D C OL
K.Grice OT Fr 4 9 1 1 5 1 1 1 10 -- D B OL
J.Lansing OT Fr 1 8 1 1 5 2 1 0 11 *- D C OL
M.Reddic SF Fr 5 0 6 1 1 1 2 0 6 -- D C SF
K.Weincek ILB Fr 1 0 7 1 5 4 3 1 9 -- D C ILB
B.Rachal ILB Fr 1 3 5 3 5 2 1 5 8 -- D C ILB
B.Barnes DT Fr 2 7 1 1 3 6 3 2 6 -- C B DT
M.Castini DT Fr 0 6 7 1 1 1 1 0 6 -- D C DT
M.Escobedo DE Fr 3 9 1 3 6 3 2 0 8 -- B A DE
Recruits:
W.Bedolla WR So 10 0 5 6 1 1 2 0 13 -S A A WR PT
C.Galati SF Sr 10 1 5 3 2 2 6 7 19 *S A A SF PT
K.Romero TE Fr 5 4 1 2 5 4 1 1 9 -S C B TE
E.Eddings C Fr 3 5 2 1 7 3 2 6 11 -S C B OL
D.Elliott TB Fr 6 2 5 1 1 1 7 7 10 -S C A TB
T.Redilla TE Fr 5 2 1 2 5 7 2 5 9 -S C A TE
T.Davis DT Fr 0 7 5 3 1 1 1 0 7 -S D C DT
J.Wright WR Fr 6 3 3 5 1 1 1 2 11 -S C B WR pt
J.Cole C Fr 0 1 2 1 6 5 4 5 9 -S D C OL
B.Moya TB Fr 6 1 5 1 2 2 1 2 9 -S D C TB
P.Simon DT Fr 0 5 4 1 4 2 1 0 7 -S D C DT
C.Perry C Fr 0 1 2 1 7 8 4 0 13 -S C B OL
DEL ratings: WR W.Bedolla (A+), SF C.Galati (A), TE K.Romero (A), C E.Eddings
(A-), TB D.Elliott (B+), TE T.Redilla (B), DT T.Davis (B), WR J.Wright (B), C
J.Cole (B), TB B.Moya (C), and DT P.Simon (C)
NC STATE (prestige ~15)
Walk-ons:
P.Cash QB Fr 2 4 1 7 1 1 4 2 8 -- C A QB
G.Beltran FB Fr 0 6 6 5 2 2 1 0 7 -- D B FB
B.Cherry C Fr 7 0 1 2 1 1 2 1 6 -- F D WR
M.Todd C Fr 1 7 2 1 5 1 1 3 7 -- D C OL
E.Pratley OT Fr 1 2 1 1 6 3 4 8 9 -- D C OL
F.Puga OT Fr 0 7 2 2 2 7 3 0 8 -- C B OL
J.Feldmiller SF Fr 6 1 7 3 2 2 6 3 11 -- B A SF
I.Vogel SF Fr 4 3 7 3 1 1 1 9 8 -- C B SF
B.Sanders PK Fr 5 1 10 -- F D PK
Recruits:
C.Rush TB Jr 5 6 7 2 1 2 1 0 12 *S B A TB PT
T.Ferricci OLB Fr 0 1 4 3 4 5 3 0 7 -S F D ILB
D.Umanzor OT Fr 5 1 2 5 3 1 6 1 7 -S D B WR
B.Thompson ILB Fr 3 1 6 1 2 2 1 3 8 -S D C ILB
H.Western OG Fr 0 1 5 6 1 2 4 1 9 -S D C WR
C.Ruch TE Fr 9 3 1 3 1 2 2 0 8 -S D B TE
J.Pollard SF Fr 6 1 6 1 1 1 1 6 10 -S C B SF
B.Emmet DE So 8 1 2 1 1 1 1 4 7 -S D D SF
P.Goodwin DT Fr 1 1 1 5 1 1 4 4 7 -S F D CB
A.Edrich DE Fr 0 4 1 1 7 3 5 0 11 -S D C DE
B.Burns PK Fr 4 4 6 -S F D PK PT
DEL ratings: TB C.Rush (A), DT T.Ferricci (B), WR D.Umanzor (C+), ILB
B.Thompson (C+), OG H.Western (C+), OT C.Ruch (C+), DE J.Pollard (C), SF
B.Emmet (C), DT P.Goodwin (C), DE A.Edrich (C), and PK B.Burns (C)
VIRGINIA TECH (prestige ~18/Bob)
Walk-ons:
C.White OT So 3 4 5 3 3 2 2 3 8 *- C C FB
P.Woods CB Fr 3 4 3 4 1 1 1 1 7 -- F D OLB
G.Grossman OLB Fr 3 2 5 2 1 1 1 7 7 -- F D OLB
C.Tredick DE Fr 3 4 1 3 5 4 3 6 7 -- D C DE
Recruits:
T.Sheldrew DE Sr 2 2 9 1 5 8 2 3 12 *S A A ILB PT
S.Putignano DE Fr 0 5 1 1 5 4 1 5 8 -S D C DE
J.Peeples ILB Jr 7 1 5 1 6 4 1 2 8 -S C B ILB pt
S.Osborne DT Fr 0 9 1 3 2 3 4 7 9 -S C B DT pt
J.Sullivan TB Fr 3 1 6 1 1 1 2 3 8 -S D C TB
B.Bai OLB Fr 5 4 2 3 1 1 5 4 9 -S D C OLB pt
T.Dodson SF Fr 9 0 4 2 1 1 2 6 11 -S C B SF
S.Iaquinta SF Fr 5 0 6 1 1 1 2 2 9 -S D C SF
W.Hagberg WR Fr 7 1 5 1 2 1 1 1 6 -S C B TB
E.Bracy DE So 0 8 4 2 1 3 2 7 14 *S C C DT pt
M.Brewton CB Fr 7 5 1 3 1 1 4 5 7 -S D C CB
DEL ratings: DE T.Sheldrew (A-), DE S.Putignano (B), ILB J.Peeples (B), DT
S.Osborne (B), TB J.Sullivan (B), CB B.Bai (B-), SF T.Dodson (C+), SF
S.Iaquinta (C+), WR W.Hagberg (C+), DE E.Bracy (C), and CB M.Brewton (C)
***FEBRUARY 2008***
(prestige estimated, not recorded)
BOSTON COLLEGE (prestige ~16/Bob)
Walk-ons:
C.Bunch WR Fr 9 0 2 1 2 1 4 3 10 -- D C WR
J.Jenkins WR Fr 5 2 3 2 1 1 3 0 6 -- F D WR
C.Mann TE Fr 6 5 1 1 2 2 4 1 8 *- D C TE
T.Curry CB Fr 9 2 1 4 2 2 2 5 8 -- C B CB
A.Rogers OLB Fr 4 0 6 1 3 3 3 0 10 -- D C ILB
Recruits:
B.Gomez CB Fr 4 0 1 6 1 1 3 3 10 -S D C CB
T.Contreras OG So 3 6 2 2 3 2 2 1 9 -S D C FB
D.Macias CB Fr 5 2 1 4 1 1 1 1 8 -S F D CB
A.Paluzzi FB Fr 3 7 2 1 2 1 4 3 10 -S D C FB
E.Crewdson DE Fr 0 1 3 7 1 1 1 2 7 -S F D CB
T.Dimenno WR Sr 11 1 2 2 2 2 10 2 20 *S B B WR PT
T.Lambert ILB Fr 4 4 2 3 3 2 1 0 7 -- F D OLB
F.Dantzler WR Fr 8 0 1 2 1 1 1 0 8 -S F D WR
B.Heinrich OLB So 4 1 4 1 2 2 4 2 8 -- F D OLB
E.Lederman DT Fr 0 5 1 2 4 4 1 4 7 -S D C DE
R.Macias C Fr 0 5 1 1 6 1 1 0 8 -S D C OL
DEL ratings: CB B.Gomez (A), FB T.Contreras (C+), CB D.Macias (C), OG
A.Paluzzi (C), DE E.Crewdson (C), WR T.Dimenno (C), ILB T.Lambert (C), WR
F.Dantzler (C), SF B.Heinrich (C), DE E.Lederman (C), and C R.Macias (C)
CLEMSON (prestige ~17)
Walk-ons:
A.Rudnik TB Fr 8 1 5 1 3 2 1 3 7 R- C A TB
A.Kuryk FB Fr 1 6 3 1 1 4 4 8 6 R- D C FB
P.Nellis CB Fr 7 2 7 7 2 1 1 1 10 -- B A SF
E.Kohlgraf ILB Fr 0 4 6 3 4 3 2 6 8 R- C B ILB
T.Brooks OLB Fr 3 3 5 3 5 4 1 0 5 R- C B ILB
Recruits:
H.Sheren DE Fr 2 3 5 2 7 3 3 0 11 RS C B ILB
P.O'Neill CB Fr 5 1 1 6 2 3 5 4 8 RS C B CB
G.Vicklund ILB Fr 2 2 5 2 7 1 2 0 6 RS D C ILB
D.Gabriel SF Fr 2 0 5 2 1 1 4 0 9 RS F D SF
A.Escarda WR Fr 6 1 1 4 2 1 2 7 11 RS D C WR
J.Vague TE Fr 1 2 1 3 5 5 3 1 9 R- D C TE
DEL ratings: ILB H.Sheren (A-), CB P.O'Neill (B), ILB G.Vicklund (B), SF
D.Gabriel (B), and WR A.Escarda (C). Day 3: TE J.Vague (B).
GEORGIA TECH (prestige ~18)
Walk-ons:
J.Busse QB Fr 1 0 2 5 1 1 2 0 8 -- F D QB
S.Gibbons TB Fr 2 3 5 2 1 1 1 0 5 -- D C TB
B.Reid TB Fr 2 1 5 1 1 1 3 5 8 -- D D TB
S.Norton TB Fr 4 2 4 1 1 1 2 0 6 -- F D TB
B.Kastely FB Fr 4 5 2 1 6 1 2 4 6 -- D C FB
H.Pentz FB Fr 2 6 2 1 3 2 5 0 9 -- D C FB
M.Young FB Fr 0 9 1 1 1 2 2 0 5 -- D D OL
P.Austin WR Fr 4 3 5 4 3 1 5 3 7 -- C B WR
C.Indichova WR Fr 1 5 1 6 1 1 0 2 5 -- F D WR
B.Gilchrist C Fr 0 9 2 2 3 2 1 6 4 -- D C OL
H.Corsiglia C Fr 0 5 1 2 1 5 2 2 7 -- F D OL
N.Caudillo SF Fr 3 1 6 1 1 1 2 1 8 -- D D SF
J.Ruiz ILB Fr 2 0 7 1 2 3 1 0 5 -- D C ILB
D.Ferreira OLB Fr 2 7 1 3 1 1 3 7 6 -- F D DT
J.Samiljan DT Fr 3 7 1 3 1 7 3 0 9 -- C B DT
Recruits:
B.Hubbs QB Jr 6 7 2 7 2 2 2 6 15 -S C B QB PT
C.Grant CB Fr 5 4 3 6 1 1 1 0 6 RS D B CB
C.Zamudio WR Fr 8 1 3 3 3 3 3 1 12 RS C B TE
M.Ertman SF Fr 5 0 5 1 1 1 2 0 8 RS D C SF
D.Shinkaruk ILB Fr 0 5 6 1 1 1 3 6 7 RS D C ILB
D.Monaghan OLB Fr 4 2 7 1 2 1 4 3 11 RS C B SF
J.Houle TB Fr 5 1 5 2 3 1 2 3 10 RS D C TB
T.Volmer C Fr 0 8 1 1 4 1 1 0 7 RS D C OL
A.Marbella TE Fr 0 4 1 6 2 3 3 0 6 RS F D TE
J.Ziemski PK Fr 1 5 14 R- F F PK
C.Sutherland FB Fr 0 7 4 4 4 4 3 3 11 RS C B FB
T.Dieguez WR Fr 7 0 1 4 1 3 2 1 10 -S D C WR
M.Palacios TE Fr 3 1 1 7 3 3 1 6 8 R- D C TE
DEL ratings: QB B.Hubbs (A), CB C.Grant (A), TE C.Zamudio (B), SF M.Ertman
(B), ILB D.Shinkaruk (B), OLB D.Monaghan (B), TB J.Houle (B), C T.Volmer (C),
TE A.Marbella (C), and PK J.Ziemski (F). Day 2: FB C.Sutherland (B), TE
T.Dieguez (C), and TE M.Palacios (C-).
MIAMI (prestige ~16)
Walk-ons:
M.Ryan TB Fr 8 3 6 2 2 2 2 7 10 *- B A TB
J.Wick TE Fr 4 0 1 1 6 5 4 4 9 -- D C TE
H.Mallah TE Fr 2 2 1 2 5 5 3 1 7 -- D C TE
M.Durante TE Fr 4 2 2 3 2 3 4 0 7 -- D C TE
E.Rath TE Fr 0 6 2 4 3 3 1 4 7 -- D C OL
T.Yeager SF Fr 1 3 6 3 4 3 3 2 8 -- C B ILB
T.Jones CB Fr 3 0 3 7 2 1 5 2 11 -- C B CB
T.Tillman OLB Fr 0 5 2 7 4 3 1 0 8 -- D C ILB
T.Robinson DE Fr 2 8 5 1 2 6 1 3 8 -- B A DT
G.Casas DE Fr 0 5 1 4 5 4 4 2 5 -- D C DE
Recruits:
R.Mayausky WR So 4 2 4 4 2 1 6 2 11 RS D C WR
E.Baker SF Sr 5 1 8 5 2 2 3 2 20 *S B B SF PT
P.True DE Fr 0 3 5 2 4 3 3 3 8 -S D C ILB
A.Cid PN Fr 6 2 11 RS D C PN pt
J.Gonzalez OLB Fr 5 2 5 1 2 2 4 3 7 RS D C OLB
E.Rodriguez C Fr 1 2 2 1 6 6 2 4 8 RS D B OL
A.VanBuren FB Fr 3 4 3 1 5 3 5 3 9 RS D B FB
D.Harris DT Fr 1 8 1 1 3 1 1 5 11 RS D C DT
DEL ratings: WR R.Mayausky (A), SF E.Baker (B+), ILB P.True (B), PN A.Cid (B),
SF J.Gonzalez (B), and C E.Rodriguez (C). Day 2: 47. Miami FL: FB A.VanBuren
(B) and DT D.Harris (C)
NC STATE (prestige ~17/Bob)
Walk-ons:
P.Hadnot FB Fr 2 5 4 4 1 1 1 5 8 -- D C FB
C.Guy C Fr 7 3 1 1 2 2 2 0 5 -- D C TE
G.Diaz C Fr 3 7 1 1 3 5 2 3 10 -- C B OL
J.Walker OG Fr 5 0 4 2 3 2 3 0 7 -- D C FB
D.Randall PN Fr 7 1 9 -- D C PN
Recruits:
W.Reilly OLB Fr 3 8 5 2 3 1 6 5 10 -S C A OLB PT
J.Ursetta C Fr 0 5 1 1 4 3 2 1 8 -S D C OL
G.Baggett SF So 8 5 3 1 1 1 5 2 12 -S C C SF
P.Weil DE Fr 1 10 1 2 1 3 2 1 10 -S C B DT pt
B.Simpson FB Fr 1 9 3 2 1 2 4 4 10 -S D C FB
R.Duhart CB Fr 0 0 4 6 2 2 1 2 10 -S F D OLB
C.Keenom OLB Fr 4 2 3 1 3 2 3 8 10 -- F D OLB
W.Moore DT Fr 3 10 2 2 1 1 4 1 8 -S C B DT pt
R.Neal TB So 2 1 5 3 4 1 2 2 12 -S D D FB
D.Dockery DT Fr 1 7 3 2 1 1 1 6 8 -S D C DT
J.Yocca OT Fr 2 2 1 1 1 7 1 3 10 -- F D TE
DEL ratings: DT W.Reilly (A), C J.Ursetta (C), OLB G.Baggett (C), DT P.Weil
(C), OG B.Simpson (C), CB R.Duhart (C), SF C.Keenom (C), DE W.Moore (C), TB
R.Neal (C), DT D.Dockery (C), and OT J.Yocca (C-)
VIRGINIA TECH (prestige ~17/Bob)
Walk-ons:
A.Rodriguez WR Fr 6 0 1 6 1 1 1 2 7 -- D C WR
B.Cueto OG Fr 6 0 3 3 1 1 2 6 9 -- D C WR
A.Nordin OT Fr 3 3 3 1 5 4 1 7 8 -- D C FB
M.Cueto ILB Fr 0 6 6 3 1 1 2 1 8 -- D C ILB
R.Nielsen OLB Fr 0 3 7 5 1 1 1 1 7 -- D C OLB
R.Inglis DE Fr 4 3 5 1 3 3 2 1 8 -- D C ILB
P.Conner PK Fr 1 2 7 -- F F PK
Recruits:
J.Sell QB Fr 5 4 1 7 2 1 2 5 11 -S C B QB
A.Mogaka WR Fr 9 1 1 3 1 2 4 5 10 -S C B WR
T.Garcia FB Fr 5 1 3 5 2 1 3 1 7 -S D B WR
J.Rosenzweig WR Fr 6 0 1 4 1 1 7 4 9 -S D C WR
J.Park QB Fr 1 6 6 5 1 1 1 8 9 -S D C QB
F.Johnson TE So 4 3 1 2 7 6 2 2 12 -S C B TE
R.Durrett CB Fr 1 2 2 8 1 1 5 3 12 -S C B CB
G.Curtis ILB Fr 5 2 5 4 3 1 3 2 11 -S C B OLB
S.Jamison CB So 4 1 5 8 1 1 2 0 10 -S C B CB
C.Scherbanic OT Fr 7 0 1 3 2 3 1 0 5 -- D C TE
J.Xiao OG Fr 8 4 1 1 1 2 2 3 6 -- D C TE
DEL ratings: QB J.Sell (A), WR A.Mogaka (A-), WR T.Garcia (A-), WR
J.Rosenzweig (A-), QB J.Park (B+), C F.Johnson (B), CB R.Durrett (B), OLB
G.Curtis (B), CB S.Jamison (B), OT C.Scherbanic (B-), and OG J.Xiao (C+)
Date: Tue Apr 15 12:50:01 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
Note: for the most part, walk-ons are listed as they were upon arrival, while
recruits are listed as they were after their first training camp; for Sep'06,
both are listed after TC.
Date: Wed Apr 16 08:40:59 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I appreciate the info...
but don't you think this is a tad distorting?
"walk-ons are listed as they were upon arrival, while
recruits are listed as they were after their first training camp"
even so
in plenty of those cases I'll take the walk on class over the recruiting
classes. Especially on the 17 downs-
Date: Wed Apr 16 08:59:53 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"but don't you think this is a tad distorting?"
I'm just presenting the data that I have on hand: my walk-on PRs are sent
before recruiting, and my recruit PRs are sent after TC. The reason I added
the note is to keep in mind that some recruits looked better upon signing
(especially where there's a glaring difference between their letter grade and
DEL rating), and some walk-ons would look worse after camps.
And it's true, some of those lower-prestige teams got some good walk-on
classes, but it's the coaches who recruited better than their walk-ons who
turned their teams into winners.
Date: Wed Apr 16 09:15:11 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
Serious question AJ - do you think 1-2 players a season rated a little higher
can make the difference to a team's success?
That's not what I believe after playing this sim for so long, at least not in
CCEL. I rarely have had a walkon class with more than 4 players rated as highly
or higher than my worst rated recruit using the letter grades and even fewer
using my own rating system that factors in how likely I think they are to bust.
I figure that a CCEL team is better served by a recruiting class with 6 solid
CB/DB players and 6 high potential DC guys than by 1 BA, 1 CA and 10 mediocre
DC guys (what you get because you spent all the points on the higher rated
guys).
Date: Wed Apr 16 09:47:27 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
yes- when it' a QB, TB or 1 or 2 D-linemen.
I doing my homework right now- there is a severe shortage of TB and QB's in
this league. (Maybe, it's the fact several top teams have like 5 or 6).
Personally, I haven't had a RB in seasons. I had to throw the ball 65-70% last
year. I think a quality RB, would have been at least one more, if not two
wins.
I'm backing off my statements til I have done all of my research and my PR's-
then if this needs to get into a heated debate- fine. Until then, I'm going to
lay low.
Date: Wed Apr 16 15:13:24 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
I hurried home today to make sure my bids were submitted. Then I was not around
a computer at 12:00 DEL time, but jumped on as soon as I could...to see that
recruiting was tomorrow.
Date: Wed Apr 16 16:40:55 2008
Sender: Tom DeSanctis
Sorry, late to this thread but this is my best walk-on class ever at the Ville:
Oh yea.. 17 prestige... A and B potential listed only...
E.Landau OG Fr 0 5 3 1 7 6 1 1 9 -- ------ *- B A OL
J.Cruz OT Fr 0 9 1 2 1 7 1 0 9 -- ------ -- C A OL
M.Geyer OT So 0 9 2 1 4 5 1 3 6 -- ------ *- C A OL
W.Harris OT Fr 0 9 3 2 1 5 2 3 7 -- ------ -- C B OL
C.Bradley SF Fr 8 0 6 5 4 3 2 3 9 -- ------ -- B A SF
J.Lara OLB Fr 5 5 5 5 3 3 3 6 8 -- ------ -- B A OLB
B.Schano PK Fr 7 4 9 -- ------ -- C A PK
Should be set on the OL for awhile... One less thing to worry about, eh? ;)
Date: Wed Apr 16 18:19:05 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
I think I hate you DeSanctis. In all my seasons I've never had more than 1 BA
walkon and have only had 3 or more CA guys a couple of times.
Date: Wed Apr 16 19:07:37 2008
Sender: Tom DeSanctis
Thanks, Gregor. That's a compliment coming from you. :)
Date: Wed Apr 16 22:37:46 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
I agree with Gregor.
I doubt I've ever seen the quality, and quantity, of O lineman that your class
has Tom. Absolutely sick.
Date: Thu Apr 17 10:02:58 2008
Sender: Johnny Gunn
E.Landau OG Fr 0 5 3 1 7 6 1 1 9 -- ------ *- B A
J.Cruz OT Fr 0 9 1 2 1 7 1 0 9 -- ------ -- C A
M.Geyer OT So 0 9 2 1 4 5 1 3 6 -- ------ *- C A
W.Harris OT Fr 0 9 3 2 1 5 2 3 7 -- ------ -- C B
UNREAL!!!
Must be nice to get a starting offensive line with just walk-ons, what's
happening on the Louisville campus? Did a Popeyes Chicken get built recentley?
Date: Thu Apr 17 13:19:56 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
The Colonel would never allow a Popeye's in his neck of the woods. Maybe they
like Papa John's?
Date: Thu Apr 17 20:17:04 2008
Sender: Tom DeSanctis
Pizza and Chicken Wings for all!
Date: Sat Apr 19 11:54:32 2008
Sender: Dave Wick
I curious as some of you are saying "I'd rather have a top recruiting class
than a couple good walkons", and keep repeating it as if it is an either-or
choice.
But, when a top prestige team gets some top walkons, they are still going to
get their good recruits on top of that. The naysayers seem to think that if
they point out that their recruiting prowess is so good, and that those good
walkons are never going to start, that those walkons won't even help their
teams. Well, even if just for depth, those guys will help and contribute.
And, if you pull in B A walkons, are you honestly expecting everyone to believe
that a B A freshman will NEVER see the field because your recruits are THAT
good?
Some of you should go into politics if you can get people to believe the stuff
you spew out.....
Date: Sat Apr 19 13:49:17 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
I don't think anyone actually made it an either-or, and nobody said that great
walk-ons won't play at the elite programs: the point is that recruiting is more
important than walk-ons, since everyone (in tier-1) has the same chance at
those stud walk-on freebies.
Date: Sat Apr 19 19:46:23 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Well my debate was the quality of walk ons can just put you over the top, and
it IS A BIG DEAL. Not "oh well- here's a walk on."
In my top 100 walk ons and recruits, one can see the walk ons are of as good a
quality as any recruit.
IMO, if a 17 or below prestidge needs a QB or RB his odds of getting a walk on
are better than getting one through recruiting.
Date: Sat Apr 19 20:05:25 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
AJ - I thought your whole point was that a) its impossible to get to 20
prestige without at least 1 breakout walkon class, and b) that walkons are
always more important than recruits to lower prestige Tier I teams.
Date: Sat Apr 19 21:26:35 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
nothing is 100%....
but I'd say thats pretty accurate.
You fill your roster with a solid foundation of C rated players, maybe one or
two develop through recruiting if your lucky, then you wait for your superstar
walkons.
Your team will be more molded at that level by getting the ball into the
hands of the AB WR that walks-on, then trying to work with your C rated
recruits.
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