Date: Thu May 1 23:07:08 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Price Per Gallon
1. Venezuela 12 cents
2. Iran 40 cents
3. Saudi Arabia 45 cents
4. Libya 50 cents
When our prices get broken down, I see all these excuses about gas price-
refining/storage...etc, etc, etc,
Is Libya so much more efficient than the US?
Date: Thu May 1 23:07:39 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"Gas price: It's all about government policy. Gasoline costs roughly the same
to make no matter where in the world it's produced, according to John Felmy,
chief economist for the American Petroleum Institute. The difference in retail
costs, he said, is that some governments subsidize gas while others tax it
heavily.
In many oil producing nations gas is absurdly cheap. In Venezuela it's 12 cents
a gallon. In Saudi Arabia it's 45.
The governments there forego the money from selling that oil on the open market
- instead using the money to make their people happy and encourage their
nations' development."
hmmm.
Date: Thu May 1 23:13:29 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
Does cheap gas make you want to live in any of those places?
Date: Fri May 2 00:54:38 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
Hmm, well I'm glad they all forego selling their oil on the market. I've never
heard of ANY of THOSE countries selling oil.
Gas may cost as much to produce anywhere, but are they really trying to make us
believe that it is random chance THOSE countries who produce the most oil are
the one who pay the least in gas prices? Sorry, I'm not buying it.
Date: Fri May 2 02:38:13 2008
Sender: Chris Blackman
"Does cheap gas make you want to live in any of those places?"
LOLOL
Date: Fri May 2 05:45:14 2008
Sender: William Johnson
My guess would be if ANY of those countries were as large as the US, they would
pay a bit more. And, if you factor in that there probably aren't any 'areas'
that they are forbidden from drilling in.
So, I think if any of those countries had the number of people using the oil
that we do and they were restricted from accessing the oil they do have in
their lands, like we are, then you would probably see much higher gas prices
than they actually have.
Also, can you give us the exact profit/cost margin they experience from oil
sales/production? If any of those countries have government controlled pricing
then it could be a false indicator (using just the price at the pump).
Date: Fri May 2 07:16:37 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
This came from a Conservative Article trying to convince Americans that $4.00 a
gallon is cheap- they linked to their source, though I can't find the whole
chart.
CHEAPEST
1. Venezuela 12 cents
2. Iran 40 cents
3. Saudi Arabia 45 cents
4. Libya 50 cents
5. Swaziland 54 cents
6. Qatar 73 cents
7. Bahrain 81 cents
8. Egypt 89 cents
9. Kuwait 90 cents
10. Seychelles 98 cents
45. United States $3.45
146. Belgium $8.22
147. Iceland $8.28
148. Monaco $8.31
149. Netherlands $8.37
150. United Kingdom $8.38
151. Norway $8.73
152. Eritrea $9.58
153. Bosnia-Herzegovina $10.86
154. Aruba $12.03
155. Sierra Leone $18.42
Some countries like Norway and the UK charge a ton of fees on gas, but it
subsidezes an good public transportation system. Others federally regulate and
aren't for profit-, others like the US are just a corporate free for all, full
of BS
Though my favorite IRAQ
Cost to US people in Iraq - $3.23 per gallon
Cost to Iraqi's - $1.36 per gallon
That is awesome- not only do we fight their stupid war, we let our enemies buy
cheap gas- LOL, what a F'in joke.
Date: Fri May 2 07:20:42 2008
Sender: Red Burley
1) Could it be that none of those countries see their prices inflated by market
speculation?
2) Could it further be, that these countries satisfy their own energy needs
before they send all their oil to China and India?
3) Finally, could it be that those countries have low fuel prices because the
oil producers don't have impatient stockholders demanding instant and excessive
returns on their investments? (I'm pretty sure that in at least three of those
four countries, oil production is controlled by the government.)
Date: Fri May 2 08:23:37 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
Doesn't $4 a gallon gas match up with 30 year inflation rates?
Date: Fri May 2 09:08:59 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
All of the countries you named has a nationalized oil company with a large
domestic supply, and undoubtedly much lower demand than in the United States.
Venezuela is for all intents a socialist country right now. So the government
takes money from the people in other ways and subsidizes cheap gas. It's a
shell game.
If you export a lot of oil, then obviously you can afford to keep some at home
more cheaply in order to support your own economic growth, especially when you
don't have that many people to support.
British people would laugh at your suggestion that their public transportation
system is good. IMO it's no better than the systems in the U.S.'s northeastern
cities, the only part of the country that really has a similar population
density to England.
-
That is awesome- not only do we fight their stupid war, we let our enemies buy
cheap gas- LOL, what a F'in joke.
-
Hint, the Iraqis are not our enemies.
Date: Fri May 2 07:20:42 2008
Sender: Red Burley
1) Could it be that none of those countries see their prices inflated by market
speculation?
:Mostly true, since the oil domestically consumed in OPEC countries never makes
it to market and therefore is never impacted by the Brent price or WTI price.
2) Could it further be, that these countries satisfy their own energy needs
before they send all their oil to China and India?
:Obviously.
3) Finally, could it be that those countries have low fuel prices because the
oil producers don't have impatient stockholders demanding instant and excessive
returns on their investments? (I'm pretty sure that in at least three of those
four countries, oil production is controlled by the government.)
:All 4, I'm pretty sure.
Date: Fri May 2 08:23:37 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
Doesn't $4 a gallon gas match up with 30 year inflation rates?
:Also generally true. The Federal Reserve's runaway increasing of the M3 has a
lot to do with the price of oil. Peg the price of oil to the value of gold, and
the increase in oil prices is not nearly as sharp.
Date: Fri May 2 09:37:28 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"Doesn't $4 a gallon gas match up with 30 year inflation rates?"
um, how about a 5 year inflation rate? It's about 800%.
----------------------
"Iraq's are not our enemies"
umm, yeah they are. Insurgents are Iraqi's. It's been shown only 2% of the
fighing force in Iraq is foreign. Even William found that information.
------------------------
"The British Transportation System a joke"
Our you serious? I lived there for 3 months you know. You can take a train
everywhere. That is just a uninformed stupid comment on your part.
----------------------
"It's about Demand"
Nice try, no it's not. It's about profit and resale. period. If it was simply
about demand, profits would rise linearly not exponentially.
Date: Fri May 2 10:21:20 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"um, how about a 5 year inflation rate? It's about 800%."
Correction.
Date: Fri May 2 15:00:08 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
AJ, I shudder when I imagine what would happen to emission rates if Americans
only paid $0.50/gallon for gasoline. It's already been quite a challenge
getting them to park their SUVs.
Date: Fri May 2 16:08:33 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
----------------------
"Iraq's are not our enemies"
umm, yeah they are. Insurgents are Iraqi's. It's been shown only 2% of the
fighing force in Iraq is foreign. Even William found that information.
:OK you and William know better than the Army. That's fine.
------------------------
"The British Transportation System a joke"
Our you serious? I lived there for 3 months you know. You can take a train
everywhere. That is just a uninformed stupid comment on your part.
:I live with a Brit you twit. He said that British Rail is crap compared to the
Eurorail. It's down all the time. The tube is pretty good though. For paying 8
bucks a gallon for gas to fund it, it doesn't seem like it's worth it to hear
him talk.
You can't compare it to whatever there is somewhere like Kansas or Wyoming.
There are commuter trains and several mass transit options between Philadelphia
and Boston, which is where the country has the greatest population density and
has been most populated for the longest.
----------------------
"It's about Demand"
Nice try, no it's not. It's about profit and resale. period. If it was simply
about demand, profits would rise linearly not exponentially.
:I refuse to even attempt to talk sense to you about oil at this point, because
you so clearly don't pay attention to anything anyone says that runs counter to
your belief.
People have said it all before about profit margins, the market price of oil,
the dollar, the weak economy promoting a rotation into commodities, price of
natural gas increasing refining costs and decreasing refining margins,
increasing cost of deep-sea rig rentals, and on and on. You don't listen, you
don't care.
So I give up. Believe what you want. No matter what you say, it's not like
saying what you say is going to change anything.
Date: Sat May 3 06:31:06 2008
Sender: William Johnson
" how about a 5 year inflation rate? It's about 800%. "
Gold was at $300 5 years ago, now it's at $1000. What increase is that?
Date: Sun May 4 11:35:46 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"OK you and William know better than the Army. That's fine."
I realize in your mind you have never been wrong Henry. - But this information
is easily available, comes from the major intelligence agencies, and I don't
think the army is disputing it.
As for the British Rail/Bus/system....
I'm no going to argue over this- I'm familiar with Miami/Fort
Lauderdale/Orlando/Philly/Seattle/Portland/Jackson MS/Charlotte/Columbia
SC/Dallas/San Deigo
Of those cities, they all suck compared to Cardiff, Dublin, London where I have
stayed.
Date: Sun May 4 11:35:57 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"OK you and William know better than the Army. That's fine."
I realize in your mind you have never been wrong Henry. - But this information
is easily available, comes from the major intelligence agencies, and I don't
think the army is disputing it.
As for the British Rail/Bus/system....
I'm no going to argue over this- I'm familiar with Miami/Fort
Lauderdale/Orlando/Philly/Seattle/Portland/Jackson MS/Charlotte/Columbia
SC/Dallas/San Deigo
Of those cities, they all suck compared to Cardiff, Dublin, London where I have
stayed.
Date: Sun May 4 12:32:23 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
If I'm not mistaken, the countries with extremely cheap gasoline are
essentially state subsidizing the prices.
Date: Sun May 4 12:48:37 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
It's ridiculous to compare a place like England to most of the United States.
England has 50 million people in 50k square miles. 1000 people per square mile.
The US has 300 million people in 3.5 million square miles. 8.5 people per
square mile. New Jersey, our most densely populated state, is only slightly
more densely populated than England (1,138). The US is #180 among world
countries/special regions in population density, behind Madagascar and ahead of
Estonia.
Our 7 states with more than 300 people per square mile are NJ, RI, CT, MA, NY,
DE, and MD (and DC). And as I mentioned before, mass transit options in the
most populated areas of those states are really quite good for the most part.
New York, DC and Boston have very good options in the metro areas, and there
are commuter trains into NJ and CT as well as into Westchester County out of
New York, to go with ferries.
Necessity is the mother of invention. Very few places in the US are as
populated as England, so very few places have seen a need (or even want) for
extensive mass transit. Many cities have bus systems that are only used by the
lame, old or poor.
Most of the people-moving inventions outside the northeast were developed to
traverse large rivers like the Ohio and Mississippi.
Date: Sun May 4 19:51:06 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Give me a break.
I'm not talking about a bus system to cover some remote part of the great
plains. Cities are cities get over it.
(Yes, it is possible that some country somewhere has something better than we
do)
Date: Sun May 4 20:48:01 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
I give up.
I never said that other places don't have better mass transit. I only said that
there's a logical reason why the U.S. doesn't: the people don't need it, don't
want it, don't use it, have never cared for it, in many parts of the country.
Good luck forcing them to use the mass transit you say should have been built
previous to now.
Date: Sun May 4 21:02:26 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"I never said that other places don't have better mass transit"
Then another Henry Morgan must have broken into your account and typed this
"British people would laugh at your suggestion that their public transportation
system is good. IMO it's no better than the systems in the U.S.'s northeastern
cities"
As for mass transit in the US-
I'd say it has a lot more to do with politics and the oil lobby, then
whether or not people could use it.
Date: Sun May 4 21:02:42 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"I never said that other places don't have better mass transit"
Then another Henry Morgan must have broken into your account and typed this
"British people would laugh at your suggestion that their public transportation
system is good. IMO it's no better than the systems in the U.S.'s northeastern
cities"
As for mass transit in the US-
I'd say it has a lot more to do with politics and the oil lobby, then
whether or not people could use it.
Date: Mon May 5 04:13:23 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
British people don't their transit system is any good compared to mainland
Europe, especially considering how densely populated Britain is.
----
As for mass transit in the US-
I'd say it has a lot more to do with politics and the oil lobby, then
whether or not people could use it.
----
It's not whether or not people could use it. The fact is, they don't.
I'm done with this. Ride a city bus outside the northeast. They're never full
and very few of the people on them are even middle class. Fact is, people in
most areas don't want it, don't use it, don't need it and don't even consider
it as a possibility for one reason or another.
Date: Mon May 5 08:28:41 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
you should travel more.
Cities like Seattle and San Francisco rely on it.
Miami has been petitioning for a rail system for years.... but it always seems
to get blocked. (need that nice parking expense and toll revenue)
Date: Mon May 5 09:08:41 2008
Sender: Karim Cheaib
well i drive a Volvo S60 here in saudi arabia, and to fill up my tank with 60
liters it cost me 8$, so i pay like 13 cents a liter
while feeling up my sister car in lebanon (40 litters) it cost me 40$ so i pay
1$ a liter
Date: Mon May 5 09:21:50 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
It's almost to the point where it would be cheaper to for Karim to ship us a
"care package" full of gas then buy it here.
Seriously, it cost $2000.00 - $4000.00 roughly to get a train car size box
through the Port of Miami from China. I imagine Saudi Arabia is about the
same.
I bet a train car could carry 10000 gallons of gas.
Right now that would be $37,900 here.
For Karim it would cost .22 litre = 1 gallon. so .52 cents per gallon. 10000*
.52 = $5200.00
$5,200.00 + 4000.00 = $9,2000.00 VS $37,900.00
OK, Karim, go find a gas truck... I'll take care of the tariffs!
Date: Mon May 5 10:08:31 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Gah, so if you admit there are cities that have decent mass transit, what the
bloody hell are you bitching about then? For gah dah dah. America isn't one
size fits all. What works in San Francisco might not work in Dallas. What works
in Fly, Ohio may not be in any way applicable to Bremerton, Washington, even if
they both have ferries.
By the way, not sure if you're aware, but Seattle and San Francisco have these
barriers to travel known as bodies of water. When your choices are a 5 dollar
toll, or no other choice at all (Kitsap and Vashon Islands), then yes, people
under those circumstances might consider other measures. Not to mention that
San Francisco is one of the most densely populated cities in the country, with
one of the most expensive real estate markets to prove it.
There are ferries crossing the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers too. But because
they cross at places like Augusta, Kentucky or Sistersville, West Virginia, you
don't know or care. There used to be a lot more, but these things called cars
got invented that people tend to like better and people stopped using many of
the ferries that were near bridges.
Just because a few folks in Miami have petitioned for something doesn't mean
there's popular support for it. If there were, it would have happened by now.
As for your conspiracy mumbo jumbo about toll fees and such...do you think that
a ride on the rail would be free? Of course not.
What are you proposing, that we build mass transit in every city, regardless of
whether it's needed or wanted? This is starting to sound like the Simpsons'
"Monorail" episode.
Date: Mon May 5 10:45:44 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
LOL... your loyalty to Wealthy Oil Loving Republicans is unyielding.
They would be proud.
I hope you at least invest in those companies, instead of just preaching
their gospel for no personal gain.
Date: Mon May 5 11:18:38 2008
Sender: Kendell R Jillson
Karim said "while feeling up my sister..."
whoa whoa whoa. Who's the moderator around here? This might be an even better
'taken out of context' line that Luddy's bit about doing his taxes and his
wife.
Date: Mon May 5 13:33:52 2008
Sender: Karim Cheaib
LOL Kendall, ok ok, its a typo for the ages this one lol.
AJ, let's start a business, but you have to redo the math, its not .22 a litre,
its .13 LOL
Date: Mon May 5 13:54:31 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Actually I missed most of the runup in oil because I didn't have enough money
freed up to invest. I actually don't think Big Oil is that great a play going
forward for a variety of reasons I'm sure you won't agree with. I like oil
services, drilling equipment and geophysical companies.
I should start an over under on gas price/oil price threads for how many posts
it will be before you abandon reasonable discussion and brand someone a blind
follower of the republicans and big oil.
Date: Mon May 5 18:54:23 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Oil is tricky...
it's one of the commodities in a reverse whatever, the futures 2 years out are
considerable lower than the present.
Date: Mon May 5 19:32:46 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Futures have consistently underperformed actual results the last few years. Too
many people like you that refuse to believe facts.
There does at some point have to be some demand destruction, and we're already
at the tipping point for that in the U.S. but nowhere near it in developing
countries. We're not far from 150, but I'm very uncertain about how fast we go
up from there.
Refiners are getting killed by the squeezed spread and therefore not refining
as much, trying to push the spread out. Valero has gone from easy street to
shedding parts in 6 months time. Western Refining is in dire straits. Tesoro's
earnings are in free fall. Marathon would be better off not having refining
right now.
There's really only one oil company I like as a long play, and it's not an
American one and not a pure oil play, as they have some ethanol as well.
Date: Mon May 5 20:31:16 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"Futures have underperformed".... -
Not if you know what your doing and understand the concept of the Goldman Roll
and how to play a commodity spread.
the system my money is in is up
31% this year,
54% last year.
and had I known of it in 2006 it returned 236%
and this has been a very difficult past 12 months for futures because all the
stimulus adds to much unpredicatbility.
Date: Tue May 6 10:43:33 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Great...if you just invested in straight oil you'd be up 97%. If you invested
in Potash Corp you'd be up like 300%.
Not sure if you got it or not, but what I meant is that people have been trying
to play a "bubble" or short oil and no one's made any money doing it for 5
years. Unlike the dot-com bubble, well, there is no bubble. IMO a lot of the
base materials and commodities-related plays are actually cheap when you look
at future earnings projections (which they've for the most part blown out for
the last couple years on the high end).
Date: Tue May 6 11:39:33 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
even if there is no bubble- the fact oil is in a "backwardation" mean people
are making money if they are using a spread system.
You might not make 97%, but you might make half that, and you won't lose your
shirt either-
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