Date: Thu Apr 24 11:21:46 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
- So my alternator went out in my wifes 2002 Kia Sportage, I changed batteries
took it to Auto-Zone and they said the charge was very weak so the alternator
was going (like I thought)
AAA towed the car over to "my wife's mechanic" and we asked for an estimate on
what it would cost to fix it. (I know I should be able to do it myself)-
anyway the alternator is 165.00
The mechanic calls her back and says "you also have a bad oil leak- 1000.00 to
fix everything" I get on the phone and say, yeah but just the alternator-
he says we need to replace the alternator,cables and battery (I didn't tell
him I switched batteries 3 days earlier)- so it will be $460.00, plus an
additional 74.50 to look at the car! So 580.00 for an alternator.???? WOW.
I call about 3 other garages and they all give me estimates between 220.00 and
320.00 for everything (+ another 40.00 if I need a new battery).
So I call this guy and say we are just going to give you the 74.50 and go
elsewhere... he tells my wife it's actually 179.00 to get her key back.
Essentially this guy is charging her 179.00 to tell me the alternator I told
him needs replaced, needs replaced- and the oil leak which no one asked him to
look at (and his garage pointed out 7 months ago is still there) WE NEEDED AN
ESTIMATE FOR HIS ESTIMATE!!
She never signed anything, never asked for any work to be done- just wanted an
estimate to change an alternator.
---
What is the best course of action? I think we just go over in the morning and
demand the key- if they refuse, call the police.
I'll see if I can find the law on line, also should I notify AAA?
Date: Thu Apr 24 12:26:40 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
AJ,
If AAA simply towed the car to whichever mechanic you instructed, notifying
them may not accomplish much. If this garage became your wife's mechanic due
to an AAA referal at some point, by all means let them know about your
treatment. Regardless, they may be able to provide some advice on how to
handle the situation.
While it wouldn't contribute to any resolution, consider filing a complaint
with the Better Business Bureau (www.us.bbb.org - to find one in your area),
about this particular mechanic, as well as seeing if they received any
complaints involving the other garages you called.
Good luck,
Brian
Date: Thu Apr 24 12:35:36 2008
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
I'd demand the car. if he doesn't give it to you, call the cops. Don't know the
laws in your state, but I can't imagine he'd have any right to hold your car.
Similar story (I mentioned this for the London boys- Chris and Brian)...
In London Ontario this guy owned all the parking lots in the downtown area. He
also owned a towing company. In every lot he put in parking meters and a sign
that said "will tow at owners expense". He also had a nice spot where he' hide
a guy with a tow truck.
This was his business model. Wait for person's meter to expire and tow to the
outskrits of the city. He'd then charge you for the two plus other BS fees
(total of almost $200).
Anyhow, one day my car got towed. My meter was only over about 5 minutes, and
already my car was gone. My first thought was that it had been stolen, so I
called the cops.
Cop on the phone told me that my car had been towed. He also told me that I
didn't have to pay the guy a penny, and that they HAD to give me back my car.
So I went to the towing company and told them to give me my car. They said
"cash or charge". I said "screw you give me my car, cause by law you have no
choice". They gave me my car.
That being said, I'm sure they made a mint on people that didn't know their
rights. Thankfully however, I heard the guy was arrested for fraud a few years
later.
I'm betting Chris and Brian have heard of this guy.
Date: Thu Apr 24 13:55:30 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
Hahaha...good for you Jeff! An awareness of that douchebag is floating in my
mind, but I can't recall the particulars. One of my acquaintences also reacted
identically to you when faced with the same situation. My acquaintence's
experiences was many years ago...tough to know if it's the same douchebag (or
relative), or simply another low-life who discovered the predatory business
model.
Date: Thu Apr 24 15:36:20 2008
Sender: Jibby Wang
Where I live, the private lots can't tow you or force you to pay more then what
you actually owe (so if your over by 10 minutes and the minimum is $2 for 1/2
hour, you owe them $2). They aren't allowed to call a towing company either.
What they can do is call the cops, have them come and write you a ticket (for
parking illegally on private property) and then the cops would have to call a
tow truck. Usually by the time a cop comes by, your long gone.
Date: Thu Apr 24 15:39:12 2008
Sender: Jibby Wang
Sorry for last post AJ.
Anyways, if you asked for an estimate and they didn't tell you or your wife
there was a cost for it, I'd bitch and ask them for proof that you agreed to
pay for one.
Date: Thu Apr 24 16:48:47 2008
Sender: Doc Barnes
Aj, you owe him nothing. Go back, demand your car, and if he doesn't give it
to you then you should call the cops. What he's doing is horrible and an
illegitimate business practice. You went to him, told him the problem, he told
you the price and then went beyond his instructed process. You don't owe him
anything and should be able to get the car back without issue.
Give me a call if you want to know how to change the alternator yourself. It's
really easy and will only cost you the price of the alternator. And my guess
on the oil leak is that it's just the oil pan gasket that's gone bad. That's
another easy fix and very cheap if you want to do it and don't mind getting a
little dirty, which I doubt is a problem. A 2002 Kia shouldn't have any major
problems causing an oil leak, so I'm sure it's the gasket.
Date: Thu Apr 24 19:01:36 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
OK.... I spoke with the attorney general, the police and a few others...
They told me to get the bill for the 172.00.
They sent me this hand written thing on a piece of papers with a bunch of
estimates, and at the bottom it says "check out fee - 172.00"
They are essentially saying my wife ordered a diagnostic. Yet she signed
nothing, no cost was ever disclosed, (not to mention anything over 100.00 in
the state of FLA needs to be in writing).
I know all she wanted was an estimate on how much it would cost to replace the
alternator.
** Now, the proper way to do it is to go to the courthouse pay the 172.00 in a
bond. Then take the bond to the garage and demand the car, call police if
neccessary. They will have 30 days to take us to court.
-----------
For the record the part is 165.00
The labor is $90.00 per hour, and they are saying 2.1 hours to change the
alternator?
Can someone tell me if this is right? The 2002 Kia Sportage is a crappy car
to workon, but 2 hours for an alternator seems long-
+ the 87.50 or 172.00 "check out" fee - which there is no way in hell I'm
paying.
Date: Fri Apr 25 05:56:58 2008
Sender: William Johnson
Someone mentioned that the laws change from state to state. They do, so
verify yours. But you ARE being screwed, you should have gone to
www.Autopsychic.com first, you would have saved hundreds of $$$!!
The independant shop I work at charges .5 (@$90hr)for initial diag, more for
electrical problems (wiring). The dealership I work at charges either .5 or 1.0
(@$130hr) depending on whether your car may be covered under warranty or not.
Whether you 'knew' what was wrong with it or not is irrelevant, the shop still
needs to verify the condition, unless you simply go in and request that the
part be changed. That keeps them from being yelled at when your 'guess' is
incorrect and they 'are supposed to be the professional'. Believe me, I've
heard that one a million times (slight exageration). I assume you took the car
to them because you've done work with them before, otherwise you should have
simply called around like you did for the other estimates. I will gladly
install 'customer diagnosed' parts at any time for the going rate. And then
will gladly 'correctly' diag the car when the customer guess isn't right, again
for the going rate. ;)
I think a nominal fee for diag would be appropriate ($50 approx.), but if
you didn't sign anything (depending on local law) you are not required to pay.
It is legal for a shop to get 'authorization' without a signature and that
should be visually evident on the shop's copy of the work order. If they have
'authorization', pay the bill for diag (maybe do it with the bond as you
mentioned) and then get the law involved. Sue them!! 9 times out of 10 the
customer wins. Keep as much documentation as you have for your suit. Get the
cops involved as soon as possible when you go get the car, but DO NOT let that
shop work on your car. Also file a complaint with the BBB.
As for the work itself, 2.0 hours labor is not uncommon for alternators.
Some are easy some are hard. At 2 hrs, yours sounds harder than most. The labor
guide was designed to keep shops from 'inventing' charges for particular jobs,
since each is different from vehicle to vehicle. There isn't a 'book time' I
can't beat, but not all mechanics are as efficient as me. You certainly don't
want to pay 'extra' for a mechanic that takes too long to fix your car simply
because he is slow. And, I don't want to lose money for fixing your car too
fast, so someone invented that compromise.
You could probably do the work yourself and save the $200. If you have a
Chilton manual (local library) and some tools. If you have to spend too much on
tools to do the job, just let someone else do it for you. Let me know how long
it takes you (working time). There probably isn't a part on your car you can't
change yourself if you have a decent selection of tools. So, check that book
and see how hard it is to change the oil pan gasket/front main seal/rear main
seal. Wait, ($1000 to fix everything?) and the alternator would cost $580 ...
hmmm ... Autopsychic says: your leak is probably either the oil pressure sender
(30% chance) or oil pan gasket (60% chance) maybe just a valve cover gasket
(80% chance). Let me know which it is. Valve cover you could do while you are
doing the alternator, they usually aren't that hard.
If you go to court and need an 'expert witness', I'm 2-0 in court cases. If
you need a mechanic, I'll give you my 'family' rate (parts-less than cost,
labor-1/2 book time x $30hr).
Date: Fri Apr 25 08:13:29 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Thanks William- and everyone.
Here's the Update:
This morning I got all dressed up and went to the garage as a "friend, who
works at a dealership" and asked the owner what happened.
He is claiming that when his mechanic called my wife at 8am, he said it's the
alternator, but "there are some other things do you want me to look at those
too"- and she said "YES". (I can't 100% confirm this conversation- because I
wasn't there"
Now-
I asked him, did she order a diagnostic? Can I see the order-
He showed me an order with no signature, and a check mark for "NO ESTIMATE
REQUESTED"
I asked him, "she didn't request an estimate?" He said nope.
I asked him- "Did you guys disclose to her that it was going to be $172.00"
He said yes.
I said- "Don't fees over 100.00 have to be in writing? He said they told her
and she didn't want it"
I know they didn't tell her they were charging her anything. I know she just
asked for an estimate to fix the alternator. She did go there before- she had
a problem with the radiator, she dropped the car off, they called her and said
_______ dollars- and then fixed it. I think that mechanic is gone.
----------
Chiltons has the repair at 1.5 hours (not 2.1) Kia's are hard to work on, you
have to take the engine apart to get to the stupid spark plugs-
but we have a 217.00 dollar estimate, and 217.00 + the 172.00 bond is still
less than the 550.00 or whatever they are asking, so we will file all the
complaints- and take our chances in court.
I'm going to get it fixed for 217.00 and include the receipt as part of my
case.
Date: Fri Apr 25 11:59:35 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
Okay, I'm quite surprised one of my fellow DEL geeks hasn't already suggested
this, but AJ's predicament is a perfect scenerio for Chuck Norris to open a
can'o whoopass on someone!
Date: Fri Apr 25 19:00:28 2008
Sender: William Johnson
I looked through the 'All Data' program we have at work, and (not knowing
exactly which Sportage you have; EX, LX, 4WD, 2WD ect) and the most time it
showed was .5. Exactly what model do you have and I'll dig up the labor times
and procedure, if you want. One version called for .3 so I'm not sure we're
looking at the same times. Even at .5 it would be ultra easy. The hardest thing
to do would be to remember to disconnect the battery; lol.
I hope you're not letting 'that' shop do the repairs. I certainly wouldn't
trust them to do a good job or warranty the part if something goes wrong. And,
still file a complaint with the BBB.
Date: Fri Apr 25 22:18:28 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
2002, Kia Sportage, 2 door, 4 cylinder, 2 wheel drive.
No- I'm bonding it out, and taking it to a guy down the street who will change
it for like 60.00, + the part.
Date: Sat Apr 26 08:54:56 2008
Sender: William Johnson
Yep, I rechecked and both versions of the 02 Kia Sportage 2WD (regular and EX)
call for .5 to R/R the alternator. The time for 'rebuilding' the alternator is
1.8 but just replacing is 1/2 hour. That's why the other shop is only charging
you $60.
What ended up being the oil leak you have?
Date: Sat Apr 26 21:58:19 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
The oil leak was diagnosed a while back, I'll find out.
Date: Wed Apr 30 11:21:30 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
update?
Date: Wed May 7 16:19:44 2008
Sender: Jason Stafford
There is a simple formula to use if you are forced to pay this clown anything.
One rock = free
One window and replacement = Aprox $150.00
Divide $150.00 into the amount you were screwed for.
The number you get is the number of windows you need to break to satisfy
yourself that while this jackass got your money,he had to apply it to something
less fun than he probably expected.
Date: Wed May 7 16:38:50 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I went to the courthouse, paid 172.00 bond, took the car out- told him if he
wanted paid - see you in court.
(he said, oh- your going to pay so much more, blah, blah)
I said just give me the car.
Went to the garage down the street.
They fixed it for 264.00
(fixed in 30 minutes- not 2.1 hours)
Still haven't heard anything. If they do sue, I'm countering for the price of
the rent a car I had to get for 3 days.
If they don't file by June 15- I get my $$ back.
Date: Thu May 8 06:20:56 2008
Sender: William Johnson
" Went to the garage down the street. They fixed it for 264.00 (fixed in 30
minutes- not 2.1 hours) "
Mechanic was probably taking his time. Were you watching him as he worked on
it? I work much, much slower when the vehicle owner watches over my shoulder.
BTW, what was the oil leak?
Date: Thu May 8 07:59:14 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
well he showed me the guides and times.... I wasn't nitpicking, I don't mind
paying someone for a service. So I just got his estimate and dropped it off.
I forgot what the oil leak was- I'll find out.
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