Date: Fri Apr 11 18:21:04 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns
in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced
them," Obama was quoted as saying by the Huffington Post.
"And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion
or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or
anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations," he said.
Date: Fri Apr 11 18:23:26 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
dem poor simple folk who just be knowin bout dair guns and jesus and hate brown
folk and furrinners might'n be need some help in learnin who to vote fer since
dey dont know too much bout anything fancified like dem city folk.
Date: Fri Apr 11 20:05:36 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I'm from a small town in PA..... called Watsontown. Look at the fork in the
Susquehanna River then go North 15 miles. Population 2000.
I remember when Zenith left, International Paper down the road closed in
Sunbury. Pennsylvannia House Furniture Closed in Montoursville. Frito Lay
left Muncy. The big Modular Home place in Montgomery closes- ACF in Milton,
the train yards cut back, just like Ceco Steel Mill in Lewisburg.
and nothing's replaced em.... fortunately the population continues to age, and
the youth (me) move away.
I'd say Obama hit that nail on the head.
Date: Fri Apr 11 20:09:04 2008
Sender: Bill Edwards
All the candidates have had some gaffes in their respective campaigns, but this
one by Obama has to rank at the top. He was really starting to close the gap
in Pennsylvania, but these remarks are going to put a stop to that. I think
this is really going to hurt him in the General election....if Clinton's
campaign wasn't so weak she might make a run at him because of these
insensitive remarks.
Date: Fri Apr 11 20:24:30 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I think you'll find down the road the strength of Obama is he doesn't sugar
coat everything like most of your career politicians.
Most of PA is a depressing crap hole. Old empty mining tows, dead steel yards,
and old empty railroad yards.
The people know it too. The celebrate everyone who leaves. Everytime I go
home people flock to you like your Jesus, others are bitter because they never
got out. It is what it is.
People are going to see an honest Obama vs a guy like McCain who can walk into
the disaster that is Iraq.. and try to tell us how awesome things are there.
Date: Fri Apr 11 20:34:52 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
This is such a cheap shot (AGAIN), lets print the whole shibang-
OBAMA
"When I go around and I talk to people, there is frustration, and there is
anger, and there is bitterness," Obama began. "I want to make a point here."
"[Pennsylvanians are] frustrated and for good reason, because for the last 25
years they’ve seen jobs shipped overseas, they’ve seen their economies
collapse. They have lost their jobs, they’ve lost their pensions. They’ve lost
their health care."
Obama then said that politicians from both sides of the aisle have promised
answers but that "nothing ever happens."
"So…they don’t vote on economic because they don’t expect anybody’s going to
help them," Obama said, adding that they end up voting on issues that include
gun rights, gay marriage, and faith.
Obama said. "Sen. Clinton says, 'Well I don’t think people are bitter in
Pennsylvania. I think Barack’s being condescending.' John McCain says, 'Oh, how
could he say that? How could he say people are bitter? He’s obviously out of
touch with people. '"
-----------------------------------------------
Now lets read Clintons comment:
"Well that's not my experience. As I travel around Pennsylvania. I meet people
who are resilient, optimist positive who are rolling up their sleeves."
and McCain:
"It shows an elitism and condescension towards hardworking Americans that is
nothing short of breathtaking,"
Clinton is truly out of touch and McCain is just trying to create an angle.
Date: Fri Apr 11 21:24:54 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
Obama's response to the attacks from Clinton and McCain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9PepjyDow
Date: Fri Apr 11 23:39:05 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
People are bitter in PA.
Bush has a 26% approval rating right now.
They do vote for the only things they think matter... hows every 5th
bumbersticker where I come from go... "god, guns, guts etc,etc,...." deer
hunting, fishing, driving a truck. Make fun of them if you want by mispelling
some words- but thats how it is.
The factories are still empty, it is an aging population because 1/2 the
children leave to find work.
I tell you what will be damaging in Pennsylannia is Hillary's:
"I see optimistic people, ready to roll up their sleeves and get to work"
bullcrap. That was 1980, the sleeves have been rolled up for 25 years lady.
People fom my neck of the woods can't stand that patronizing junk. It doesn't
fly. If your a straighshooter you'll win PA.- Hillary sounds awful to me
right now.
Date: Fri Apr 11 23:55:31 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
Obama generalizes small-town folk as anti-immigrant xenophobes that just cling
to their guns and religion and his supporters think it is fine.
It really is a cult. The guy could say anyone between the ages of 56 and 61
should be executed and his supporters would say, "Well he has a point."
Obama a straight shooter? Seriously? Wow. Cult.
Date: Sat Apr 12 00:01:47 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"Make fun of them if you want by mispelling some words"
I'm from Iowa. I am not making fun of them. I am making fun of Obama being a
dumbass.
Fortunately for him, no one cares what he says. He will get those people jobs
and fix their economy with his magic lollipops of rainbows.
McCain. The Dubya lovers hate him, yet he is supposedly a Dubya clone. Great
spin.
Date: Sat Apr 12 01:28:41 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
"It really is a cult. The guy could say anyone between the ages of 56 and 61
should be executed and his supporters would say, "Well he has a point.""
That has to be THE single most narrow-minded, ignorant, and down right
stupidest comments I have heard.
"Fortunately for him, no one cares what he says. He will get those people jobs
and fix their economy with his magic lollipops of rainbows."
No, fortunately more people care about what he says than they do the other two
candidates. Sure, in your world that makes we Obama supporters a CULT. And no,
we don't expect the heavens to open up, angels and rainbows appear. We have
realistic expectations, meaning it's gonna take quite some time to fix all of
the problems of this country. But why take a group of people who share hope,
and are excited about getting the country turned around, and label them a CULT?
How ridiculous!
Date: Sat Apr 12 06:44:10 2008
Sender: William Johnson
" if Clinton's campaign wasn't so weak she might make a run at him because of
these insensitive remarks. "
Which leads you to believe they are fighting a campaign to see which can
lose first!
" This is such a cheap shot (AGAIN), lets print the whole shibang- "
And, how does that change anything?
" Bush has a 26% approval rating right now. "
And the democrat approval rating is WHERE?!? Which has absolutely what to do
with this conversation?
" But why take a group of people who share hope, and are excited about
getting the country turned around, and label them a CULT? "
Isn't that the slogan to the old 'Branch Davidians'? I think the 'cult'
comparison is used because it fits so well. We don't need to be "narrow-minded,
ignorant" to see that, either. Maybe I am, but that doesn't change anything.
Date: Sat Apr 12 07:29:40 2008
Sender: Dennis Berg
I thought I had a fun day planned for today. My brother is coming to town and
we were getting together and going to (oh my) a gun show. We would have spent
several hours drooling over many firearms, and maybe adding to our collections,
if we found something we couldn't live without. But now, Dr. Sigmund Obama has
enlightened me. Now I see that my respect for the 2nd amendment and the
enjoyment of holding a finely made firearm is only misplaced frustration from a
job I lost to China 4 years ago. I mean what did I know? I'm just your
typical poor ignorant white trash from fly-over country.
From my cold dead hands Mr. Obamanation.
Date: Sat Apr 12 09:06:55 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
You guys are sitting here telling me how people where I grew up think?
PA is not flourishing. People are not overly optimistic. They are old.
I gave you a list of all the factories that closed in the past 20 years nothing
has replaced them. Proof check them if you want.
It is a "redneck" lifestyle. People have detatched themselves from other
issues.
It is one of the most accurate analysis's made in this campaign.
IT"S FUNNY HOW NOBODY IN PA SEEMS OFFENDED??? just out of touch political
pundits.
The right wing criticizes Obama for supposedly all this "hope talk" but when he
discusses the attitude of PA, all of a sudden you start crying if someone
doesn't blow sunshine up your ass.
Date: Sat Apr 12 09:23:04 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I think one of the things you'll find as this campaign moves forward is Obama
will be a very difficult adversary because he can speak directly and clearly,
and be blunt when necessary.
He won't crawl into a corner like John Kerry did, or be so out of touch in
political dressings like Hillary and he'll actually have to be confronted so a
lot of the Republican word plays and label techniques that have been so heavily
relied on in the past two elections will just end up looking stupid.
Date: Sat Apr 12 09:34:35 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
on the other hand, I don't think the Right has to worry about losing small town
PA to Obama. It's still far to racist in most parts to vote for a black guy,
or a woman for that matter.
Date: Sat Apr 12 09:41:29 2008
Sender: Bill Edwards
I don't have a dog in this fight and that is why I find this whole process very
interesting. As I said before, all candidates make gaffes but the candidate(s)
that can overcome them is the one(s) that will be successful. Senator Clinton
and McCain have both made their fair share thus far. I think, however, what is
going to hurt Obama now is the fact that these remarks were not suppossed to be
for the public record. He made them at a private fund raising gathering in
California. He had no idea there was a reporter there with a hidden small tape
recorder. As a result this makes him come across as condescending and elitist
in nature, traits the Republicans usually get tagged with.
They also highlight an Obama Achilles heel all thruouth the campaign, the
image that the Harvard-trained lawyer is arrogant, aloof and carries himself
with an air of superiority. I think Obama has ran a great campaing up until
about 3 weeks ago. But now he needs ro remember that the vetting process is in
full tilt now and every single word he says is going to be scrutinized. This
really is a very bad gaffe and I would be surprised if the results in the PA
primary does not reflect that.
Date: Sat Apr 12 10:32:54 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"That has to be THE single most narrow-minded, ignorant, and down right
stupidest comments I have heard."
That is hard to believe considering that you are an Obama supporter.
Get ready to put on your sneakers, the spaceship Obama is promising, the SS
Hope, is coming soon.
"The right wing criticizes Obama for supposedly all this "hope talk" but when
he discusses the attitude of PA, all of a sudden you start crying if someone
doesn't blow sunshine up your ass."
Go back and read it a tenth time AJ. I don't care that he talked about
bitterness, I am talking about his generalizations about those simple
Midwestern folk.
Not that you will change your mind. You'd vote Democrat if it was Neil
O'Donnell running for them against a republican Terry Bradshaw.
Date: Sat Apr 12 10:34:51 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
The cult jokes come from the way Obama supporters talk about him. I have yet to
see one Obama supporter here own up to any of his possible faults. If he was
the same way, saying the same stupid things, but had republican values,
Obamanites would be attacking him and saying he was Karl Roving it.
But no, he promised to get out of Iraq....oops.
THE LEADER IS GREAT. LISTEN TO THE LEADER.
Date: Sat Apr 12 10:50:27 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"Obama will be a very difficult adversary because he can speak directly and
clearly"
If by speak directly and clearly you mean repeating "Hope change hope change"
and not answering questions directly, then I agree with you 100%.
Date: Sat Apr 12 10:52:34 2008
Sender: Gregor Ellis
Its the message that the small town folk are religious, conservative in social
attitudes, patriotic (in the sense of 'my country right or wrong' not the Rush
Limbaugh 'we are, you aren't' sense), and believe in the conservative view of
2nd amendment rights BECAUSE of their economic bitterness that's going to bite
him in the general election. The fact that he didn't say it on the campaign
trail but rather in front of a bunch of liberal fat cat doners in SF works
against the argument that he's just being straightforward and honest, unlike
most pols.
Date: Sat Apr 12 11:37:18 2008
Sender: Just Oz
I think this one is a mixed bag.
Obama is right that people are upset so he gets points for that.
He IS being condescending when he use the phrase "cling to their guns or
religion."
Obama probably wasn't going to get a lot of the gun vote anyways. He now isn't
going to get non-african americans who take their religion seriously either.
*******************************
Below I go off on an incoherant rant about religion and guns:
I don't "cling to my religion." My relationship with Christ drives everything
else in my life and it is condescending to talk in this way. It's why
Democrats tend to strike out with religious people because to the DEMOCRATIC
POLITICIANS (not saying regular Democrats) religion is just something you do on
Sunday or Something you try to figure out how to manipulate in an election.
For African American politicians, it's part of tapping into the community
because for them, it's also a gathering point.
The same is true about Guns. People don't "cling to their guns." Gun owners
have a very real understanding that gun ownership by the common man is key to a
stable society and something that allows them to protect their families. They
don't cling to them for support, they are important and gun ownership is a
first principle with these people.
Obama back in 1996 was completely against guns.
Today Obama says its an individual right, but he thinks that DC's gun law is
reasonable even though you have to have your long guns stored and unloaded and
you can't have handguns at all.
Date: Sat Apr 12 11:40:12 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
how about the fact what he said is true? Your all so quick to jump around it.
"this makes him come across as condescending and elitist
in nature"
only if you believe everything is great in PA. I think most of the people of
PA, do feel shafted. 1 in 7 PA's is a veteran, they feel a stake in this war,
economically they have caught no breaks. Not as bad as Ohio, but still not
good.
They do vote on moral issues....
People in PA don't need McCain or Hillary telling them how "PAers are good and
hardworking"- that is condescending and elitist.
-------------------------------
As for Obama
I'll take "change for hope"
over
"everything is super awesome"
the war is going great, the economy rocks, gas is cheap in comparison to
liquid plutonium, Exxon is saving the world or whatever bull the right wing is
spewing now.
For a conservative to be talking about cults & Kool aid after the 9/11 WMD
brainwashing is amazing to me.
Date: Sat Apr 12 11:44:06 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Let me ask-
Is Carl Rove that much smarter than the the right wing voter? He knows what
Obama said is true.
He turned the 2004 election into God, Guns & Gays. He pulled voters out on
those issues-
Now what has changed? NOTHING... AT ALL.
The day after the election those issues dissapeared never to be heard from
again, until the right wing needs voters again.
your like puppets.
Date: Sat Apr 12 13:03:33 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
Me:
"But why take a group of people who share hope, and are excited about getting
the country turned around, and label them a CULT?"
william:
"Isn't that the slogan to the old 'Branch Davidians'? I think the 'cult'
comparison is used because it fits so well. We don't need to be "narrow-minded,
ignorant" to see that, either. Maybe I am, but that doesn't change anything."
William, this followup by you replaces Josh's as the dumbest statement on this
thread, but why am I not surprised. To compare Obama supporters to Branch
Davidians is completely inappropriate and just plain ridiculous. There is no
basis for such a comparison.
We have McCain supporters, Clinton supporters and Obama supporters.
What makes one group RIGHT and another group WRONG? Nothing more than opinion!
There are pros and cons for each candidate, and there is no candidate among the
bunch who is without gaffes, blunders, mistakes, misquotes, questionable
judgments in the past, and on and on. There is no "perfect" candidate.
Those of you who think that Obama supporters have somehow been brainwashed into
thinking that life will be beautiful with rainbows and lollipops and chocolate
rivers are being unrealistic, blowing everything way out of proportion, and are
not in touch with these Obama supporters who you are so quick to point fingers
at and cast your judgments upon. I have been working with these people for
months, and they are all just regular people with a candidate that they are
trying to help get elected...no different from the McCain camp or the Hillary
camp.
These people know that things are not going to be changed overnight if he is
elected - many of the things that need to be addressed will take years to
achieve. And they all know that even then it is not going to be an "ideal"
country. This is a group of people who feel strongly about their candidate, and
simply think he is the best choice we have at this time.
Why is that so wrong with you guys?!
I have personally been a lifelong Republican, and have voted GOP in EVERY
single presidential election in my life - even when I had no one better than
DOLE to vote for, for crying out loud. But you know, I found a candidate that I
liked this time around, and I switched so I could vote for that candidate. Are
you going to call me a brainwashed cultist for that decision?!
I have been following ALL of the candidates from the very first debates up
through the latest debate. I didn't know who I was going to go with for awhile.
Then I made my choice. But what I'm hearing from you guys is that I made the
WRONG choice. I should not have watched all of the debates, and learned as much
as I could about each candidate before making my selection...it should have
been as simple as being a robot and voting for the GOP nominee. Period.
Well, sorry to disappoint, but I have my own mind, I don't need to be told who
to vote for by anybody or according to any party. I will vote for who I think
is the best choice for this country at this time. I have made my decision.
Attack me all you want.
Date: Sat Apr 12 13:18:24 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
me:
"That has to be THE single most narrow-minded, ignorant, and down right
stupidest comments I have heard."
MacOscar:
"That is hard to believe considering that you are an Obama supporter.
Get ready to put on your sneakers, the spaceship Obama is promising, the SS
Hope, is coming soon."
More of the same nonsense. Joshua, who are you to criticize me for being an
Obama supporter? And you go on to imply that I am brainwashed by the "SS Hope".
You have your opinions, I have mine. I'd much rather have hope than to be a
person who has to ridicule those people who are feeling hope and excitement
about the future of our country.
Read my comments above. If you still want to personally attack me for my
decision on my candidate, then so be it. But explain to me why your opinion is
better than mine - why you are right, I am wrong.
Date: Sat Apr 12 13:39:06 2008
Sender: Morris Cohen
Politics these days can be summed up quite simply:
When person A talks about things that are bad and need to be improved, all of
person A's staunch opponents yell and scream that person A is just about
negativity and can't present an actual plan.
When person A talks about things that can be great, and reasons to believe that
things can get better, all of person A's staunch opponents yell and scream that
person A just suger-coats everything and doesnt really offer a way forward.
When person A is the challenger in a race, all of person A's staunch opponents
yell and scream that all person A can do is criticize the incumbant and be
angry.
When person A is the incumbant in a race, all of person A's staunch opponents
yell and scream that person A did a terrible job and needs to be replaced in
the name of "change"
Person A can be in whatever party, doesnt matter. We've seen it with basically
every major politician since I've been following along. Obama is no different.
But, luckily for Obama supporters, none of that matters, because here's why
Obama is going to win in November:
1. Increased turnout. The above arguments will do nothing to stop the wave of
increased Democratic turnout that will help Obama massively in November.
2. Decreased turnout. The above arguments will do nothing to stop the wave of
"stay at homes" from a Republican base demoralized from a disastrous Bush
presidency, and not getting a candidate they wanted in the primary.
Date: Sat Apr 12 13:52:20 2008
Sender: William Johnson
Merriam-Webster
Cult:
1: formal religious veneration : worship
2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
<health cults>
5: a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or
book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b: the object of such devotion
c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion
What is #5 again?
Date: Sat Apr 12 13:55:09 2008
Sender: Morris Cohen
So William, is Christianity therefore a cult, too? It certainly meets
definition #5 (as would just about all religions for that matter....)
Date: Sat Apr 12 13:57:27 2008
Sender: William Johnson
If the shoe fits...
Date: Sat Apr 12 13:59:37 2008
Sender: Morris Cohen
How about coffee lovers?
Wine connoisseurs?
Outdoor enthusiasts?
Avid newspaper readers?
They all show "devotion to some idea"
Come to think of it, I guess anyone who decides they like anything, well I
guess they're all just part of a cult.
Even sports fans must be part of a cult! Certinly with many fan bases being
comprised of a lot of fair weather fans, it's most certainly within the
definition of #5.
It's time to bring out the tear gas, there's a Branch Dividian compound a mile
from my house!! It's called Stanford Stadium!!
Date: Sat Apr 12 14:32:35 2008
Sender: William Johnson
" Come to think of it, I guess anyone who decides they like anything, well I
guess they're all just part of a cult. "
Yes, so even golf lovers are members of a cult. I'm a member of the USGA,
so I belong to a dangerous cult. We strive to shoot little birdies and pride
ourselves if we shoot an eagle (even though it's illegal to shoot them in
America).
Date: Sat Apr 12 14:35:58 2008
Sender: Just Oz
AJ -- I conceded you the point of Obama being right about people being bitter.
now it's your turn for a little honesty here.
NO ONE is saying the economy is great which you imply is what Hillary and
McCain is saying.
As for the war, the war is going fine. Just because it's not over doesnt' mean
it's not going fine. Liberals like to compare the war to WWII for length of
fight. Well, in WWII, we lost 400,000 ... shoot we lost 19,000 just at the
battle of the bulge.
Finally, on Obama, you say you'll settle for his "hope" message and yet he's
shown himself to be a typical politician these past couple of months.
Definitely not above the fray.
**************************
Now the problem with this thread is that we can't stay on topic. We start with
Obama's comments and end up in WWII.
Date: Sat Apr 12 14:45:55 2008
Sender: Bill Edwards
I will concede that Democrat voter turnout and registration has far exceeded
Party expectations, but there are some factors to be considered when looking
ahead to the General election. Obama has indeed attracted a high percentage of
younger voters, but the problem is younger voters historically have a penchent
for not turning out in the General regardless of how excited they were during
the Primaries. So I think you will see some errosian there. As for the
Republicans, due to the fact the race was decided pretty early there has been a
good percentage that have crossed over and voted Democrat in the Primary, but
the vast majority of these will come back to vote Republican in the General.
As for Republican turnout in the General overall I think it depends a great
deal on the type of campaign McCain wages. If he sticks to core conservative
Republican values the base will support him, but if he veers to far to the
center he will lose that support. It is a mixed bag with McCain. He is
without a doubt the best candidate the Republicans could have nominated because
of his appeal to independent voters. But the downside is if he courts that
segment too much he loses base support. Right now I think that the
Presidential election is the Democrat candidate's to lose.
Date: Sat Apr 12 16:00:12 2008
Sender: Morris Cohen
"Yes, so even golf lovers are members of a cult."
Well, you can sign me up for that cult! I've certainly been thoroughly
brainwashed....
Date: Sat Apr 12 16:31:42 2008
Sender: William Johnson
I apologize for comparing Obama supporters to Branch Davidians. It was wrong
and I'm sorry.
Date: Sat Apr 12 17:26:24 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
DEL CULT!
Date: Sat Apr 12 20:58:05 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
OZ- the War.
I don't know if it's going fine, I don't know if it's going terrible to be
straightforward.
From a death standpoint, it's probably pretty good. Realistically, not that
many people have died.
From a money standpoint it pisses me off.
--------------------
The big problem with Iraq is going backward, not foward.
I have become convinced the War was desired by the Neo-cons (Project for the
New American Century) since the early 90's and 9/11 gave them the opportunity.
They saw the opening took it, did everything they could to get the country on
board. Though somehow with all their talent, power, and brilliance they
screwed it up. Maybe it was hubris.
Regardless it was a huge betrayal.- and I don't really like anyone involved in
it.
Is that what your asking on the war?
Date: Sun Apr 13 06:36:59 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
AJ
yes, i agree a majority of the people here in pennsylvania are bitter. I
disagree that it is a large majority. Well, I shouldn't say that. I think it
is a large majority, but I think most around here are MORE CONCERNED with state
level officials. I know the overwhelming feeling is that as long as our
Gov's- DEM or REP continue to focus strictly on Philidelphia and it's burbs the
rest of the state will get crushed.
Pittsburgh has attempted a large 'rebirth' into the 'silicon' sector- and has
suprisingly found some success. The Skyline is no longer the depressing black
hole it was when i was younger- but is actually a source of pride.
(http://www.cscrafts.com/maryloupointnight.JPG)
However, as much good as the local politicians (mostly dem's) have done for
that city- they have also caused some major problems. The parking taxes are
CRAZY- was the HIGHEST in the country. Higher than NYC. Still might be
although that was 2 years or so ago.
Rendell has continued to help chase away the medical professionals by raising
their already inflated burden. That was a strength of Pittsburgh too.
I have to admit that in my area all the same plants are still open, although
some under different names. Indspec, Sonneborne, AK Steel, etc are all still
jobs everyone wants in the Butler/Kitttaning/Clarion triangle.
Date: Sun Apr 13 08:12:49 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I think Philly is pretty much it's own, and from what I understand Pittsburgh
has done a lot in the past decade or two, to not be a dead steel town.
My area is the dead center of the state. Harrisburg up to Wellsboro, State
College east to Reading.
Bitter is a hard word because it makes people sound bad, but I'd say people are
sad about how things turned out. It's a nice place and all, but there just
isn't that much opportunity there.
Most of them know it. You get a job in the prison system, law enforcement,
maybe one of the few factories around me- thats it. Unless you are just
content and not big on ambition.
People there vote on the things they see every day (and yes they like to
hunt), on a national level I think they are very detatched.
I just think Obama's meaning is getting misconstrued intentionally. This is
the 2nd time he's said something that was quite clear, and he has had to defend
"word plays".
I mean he was just in PA for 3 or 4 days going thru the small towns, if he
thinks people are bitter or stuck on local and moral values, it's probably a
fair evaluation. - Especially vs people that have never been there.
If you want to campaign against the guy for his politics- fine, but these kind
of angles get old.
Date: Sun Apr 13 16:30:45 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
I hope that last line wasn't aimed at me. I've voiced my concerns on the guy
overall, but I didn't jump on this one- I find it kind of silly. I was only
stating my perception of the I-80 to Turnpike NW Pennsylvania people.
Date: Sun Apr 13 22:07:05 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
Chris E Smith,
If you are going to play the "personal attack" card and attempt to take the
high-road, don't do it after saying someone else's statements are moronic. I
have no problem with you calling me a moron, just don't wuss out during the
back and forth. Jump in the pool or stay out of it, don't just dip a toe until
you decide it is too cold.
I don't consider everyone that supports Obama to be cult-like. I consider those
that think any negative brought up about him to be unfair politics to be part
of a cult. I think John McCain is aces. I have wanted him to be president since
the late 90s. But when bad things are brought up about him, I am not going to
paint them as unfair. I think Obama has some serious issues with honesty and
that is relative to other politicians. But whenever any of those issues are
presented to the average Obama supporter (I listen to conversations more than
engage), they are dismissed, much like I have seen you do.
Date: Sun Apr 13 22:15:47 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"For a conservative to be talking about cults & Kool aid after the 9/11 WMD
brainwashing is amazing to me."
Guess who I voted for in 2000? Hint: He does not have the initials GWB.
Guessed which party I registered with? Hint: None.
Guess the ratio of conservatives and damned hippies I have voted for at all
levels of government since I started voting. Hint: It is like, 1:1 when you
reduce it.
I know I post a lot of anti-left stuff here. That is just because it is usually
just rehashed blog crap about how Dubya is terrible. I am not trying to play
the "I am really a moderate" card. I think everyone is an idiot, starting with
the libertarians and working their way up to America's Hero Sean Hannity.
But let us address the above post. If you argue that Dubya fooled us all and
has a cult-like devotion, you have a point. I know sensible people that think
we need to blow up Iranistan and get pissy with me when I criticize Dubs.
The tricky part comes next. If you feel as though that type of Kool-Aid is bad
to drink, why is it okay if it Obama flavored?
Date: Sun Apr 13 22:24:53 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
AJ,
He didn't just say Pennsylvania. He talked about it being all across the
midwest. I will take your word for it that people in hicksville PA vote based
on guns and religion, but it is not like that in every little Central USA small
town. It is ridiculous for Obama to say that. Unless you really hate
republicans and think he is the best chance to send them adrift.
"If you want to campaign against the guy for his politics- fine,"
This is horse hooey. He is not out there just saying, "Vote for me because of
my politics". If he is going to run a campaign of words and hope or whatever
buzzword average America laps up, then he is open to criticism for what he
says.
Date: Mon Apr 14 02:48:42 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
Joshua MacOscar,
Obviously someone is a little cranky this morning. Are you through with your
series of rants toward individuals on this thread? You neglected to call anyone
out by name on your second post btw. If you're calling me and Perko out by
name, shouldn't that second one be aimed at someone?
Show me where in this thread I called you a "moron" or referred to your
statements as "moronic". You can't do it because I didn't say that. Get your
facts straight before you come blasting me.
I did not "wuss out" of anything. If I didn't manage to get comments in
everywhere that you think I should've, it was most likely because I was not on
the forum. I can't sit here ready to jump on every comment 24 hours a day, nor
would I have any interest in doing so.
Wait...why am I even writing this? This is ridiculous. Do you REALLY have
ANYTHING valuable to say?! It appears that you may be typing in your sleep or
something. I'm serious. Not a one of your comments toward me holds any water.
You're even contradicting yourself on what you've said earlier in this thread.
If you feel the need to call me out by name for something that is actually a
valid point, then do so later.
Date: Mon Apr 14 02:54:19 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
"I apologize for comparing Obama supporters to Branch Davidians. It was wrong
and I'm sorry."
William,
Since I'm reading this thread for the first time since my last post on
Saturday, I just wanted to commend you on your classy comment I quoted above.
As an Obama-supporter, I sincerely thank you for that.
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:23:22 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"If you want to campaign against the guy for his politics- fine, but these kind
of angles get old."
Mike this is a generalization.
Look at the past month.
Obama's went to a Muslim pre-school
Obama's preacher is an ignorant racist
Obama's said small town people are stupid
that gets old. What does McCain stand for again? It's hard to say no one is
talking about it. What's up with Hillary? Who knows.
----------------
Obama did a tour of small town USA and said the obvious- which part isn't true?
Are you saying small town people don't vote more strongly on God and morality?
(It's been shown they do)
Are you saying small town people are more attached to guns and hunting? (I
think they are)
Are you saying they aren't bitter about the job losses? (who knows, he said
they were- I guess the one who disagree will vote for someone else)
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:37:58 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"What does McCain stand for again?"
While Obama may tout Himself as the Candidate of Change and Hope and Diplomacy
and Reaching Out and Building Bridges Together Toward the Future, McCain
actually has a boatload more experience doing bipartisan work and reaching
across the aisle to get things done, so I'd say that's something he could stand
for. Maybe it's not as catchy as a one-word slogan with a Capital Letter, but
he does have... well, Experience.
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:47:05 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"Obama did a tour of small town USA and said the obvious- which part isn't
true?"
I'd say it's the part where he makes a causal connection between local
unemployment and those social issues -- as if it's the small towners' economic
disaffectment/disillusion that makes them turn to guns/God/whatever as a sort
of crutch, with the obvious implication being that when they get their jobs
back (or new and better ones) they'll become peace-lovin' Enlightened folk like
you find in the big cities.
I tend to think those small-town Midwesterners always loved God and guns, and
pretty much everyone is bitter when they lose their jobs.
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:50:42 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
We can discuss experience. Long before I knew who Obama was I said experience
was way overrated in politics.
I don't not like McCain, he's been one of my favorite Republicans for a long
time..(and he will get my vot before Hillary, who I think is incompetent) but
the longer your in politics the more special interest groups and big business
get their slimy tenacles in your pockets.
I want a guy who doesn't "give a damn" how things are done on Capital Hill. I
want a guy who is naive and can say "what the hell is this?" to all the secret
handshakes, and selling out of values, and pork.
Do I have to remind you of another President, who didn't have any Capital Hill
experience, was considered naive and a maverick? Who flip- flopped on his
political party only years earlier.
That product of liberal Hollywood- Ronald Reagan
Date: Mon Apr 14 08:52:29 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
oh and did I mention ran a "hope based" campaign in 1980 in lieu of economic
crisis and problems with Iran?
Date: Mon Apr 14 09:38:41 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
Reagan was a twice-elected governor of a major state, Obama is a first-term
senator with a state legislature background. Experience is about having a
track record; Obama is an unknown quantity which is my biggest concern about
him.
oh and did anyone ever mention supporting McCain over Reagan in 1980?
Date: Mon Apr 14 10:04:21 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Governor vs legislature...
who is better prepared for Capitol Hill?
Someone who is actively working in Washington, or someone on a state level
governorship?
Obama was in the Illinois Senate since 1997. If your going to count "Governor"
you should probably count "State Senator" too, on the experience chart.
I'm just saying I don't care. Politics is like Pro Football Coaching: too
many recycled people.
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:07:51 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
Sorry Chris, you said stupid, not moronic.
You can disregard any points made about Obama as invalid. That is the Obama
way.
It seems as though you don't want to take the high road but you want me too.
Why don't we start over?
AJ,
You know another guy that ran as a Washington DC outsider that was promising
change? Dubya.
The problem I have with your point about how people in that area do like
guns/religion and are bitter is that is not what Obama said. He has said, in
two different ways, that they vote for issues like guns and religion because
they are bitter. He is trying to take away the validity of their stances on
guns and religion.
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:14:12 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"who is better prepared for Capitol Hill?
Someone who is actively working in Washington, or someone on a state level
governorship? "
IMO, governorship, easily. It's executive experience, which is directly
analogous to the job of the President, especially for a major state like
California. I just don't like congressmen as presidential candidates at all
(that goes for McCain too, but at least he's been doing it for 20-some
years--PLUS 25 years in the military), the work is just completely different.
As for STATE legislature, that counts for precisely nothing in my book: might
as well hype that experience on the undergrad student government in college.
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:41:42 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Kevin- do you really think anyone in government needs more experience in how to
delegate or act like an executive?
if anything they need more experience in not being a CEO type.
----------------------------------------------
"they vote for issues like guns and religion because
they are bitter. He is trying to take away the validity of their stances on
guns and religion."
maybe. I wish he could sort of.
Throw gay marriage & abortion into that, and well, that is how
a lot of Liberals think. Me too, I don't think a concern over whether we say
"Happy Holidays or Merry Christmas", or whether 2 guys get married, is a vote
worthy issue for President in a time of war and pending recession.
It was extremely frustrating from my side of the aisle in 2004- billions of
dollars into a controversial war to see people coming out to vote because they
didn't want gays getting married... or abortion (which isn't changing
regardless).
It bugs the hell out of me in fact, it's like buying a house based on the type
of flowers in the garden.
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:49:31 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"Kevin- do you really think anyone in government needs more experience in how
to delegate or act like an executive?"
I think Obama does. :)
Date: Mon Apr 14 11:57:16 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh
AJ - many Christians believe those issues are tied together. They believe that
the fortunes of a country reside in the hands of God, and that God grants
prosperity or denies it based on the degree to which the society's belief
system matches His will.
Date: Mon Apr 14 12:06:13 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
yeah -it bugs me.
Date: Mon Apr 14 16:32:47 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
"You can disregard any points made about Obama as invalid. That is the Obama
way."
MacOscar,
I haven't "disregarded any points made about Obama as invalid", unless you're
referring to me contending that Obama supporters are not a cult who are
brainwashed by his words, and that it's completely off-base to compare them to
Branch Davidians. If you're shallow enough to argue that point some more, I
won't back off of that. The only other thing I did above was explain my stance
- my history of being GOP and voting GOP, until I found a candidate this time
that I am truly motivated by. Really...if you would look back you could read it
all for yourself. So I know not of what you speak with these comments.
"It seems as though you don't want to take the high road but you want me too.
Why don't we start over?"
Exactly what is this "high road" that you keep wanting me to take? And start
over with what?
This is a silly waste of my time, and a silly waste of everyone else's time who
has to browse thru it when reading the thread. I apologize to the rest of you
for having to wade thru this garbage.
Date: Mon Apr 14 22:15:03 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
You know what is most bothersome.. (to me as a native small town PAer)
You have Clinton and McCain saying look at Obama's rhetoric, he's elitist,
doesn't respect you
then you have
Obama saying lets discussed NAFTA which they Clinton/McCain (I think) and see
whose out of touch.
Whether or not you support the philosophy behind NAFTA,- as of now NAFTA
pummeled much of the industry in PA/Ohio. I don't think that can be disputed.
From my view it's frustrating that people are so block-headed. I know, my
family knows, my friends back home know... that many of their companies went
South after NAFTA. Yet they still would rather discuss Obama's words then
even, even just a little discuss the philosophy and effects NAFTA has had on
them. Obama is out of touch - yet Hillary was totally behind NAFTA, now saying
"these are hard working optimistic people"- to me that is so insulting.
Date: Tue Apr 15 09:50:32 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
I didn't relate Obanites to Branch Davidians. If your response to comments
about how quickly Obamanites are willing to dismiss any issues brought up about
him are to dismiss them, then yes, it is considering them invalid.
Apparently in the eyes of many Obamanites, he can sugar-coat and not give any
straight answers while continuing to be dishonest, but if it is brought up, it
is unfair politics. It is like voting for student council president. Obama is
promising three hour lunches and topless Fridays and everyone wants to vote for
him.
"Exactly what is this "high road" that you keep wanting me to take?"
You were huffy about "personal attacks" in a post, and then made the same kind
of "personal attacks". I was simply trying to confirm what you wanted.
"And start over with what?"
I was attempting to make things civil. Not a priority for you I guess.
"This is a silly waste of my time, and a silly waste of everyone else's time
who has to browse thru it when reading the thread."
Then don't read it and don't respond. If I'm messing up your life dude, turn
the channel. I think that a lot of Obama supporters are voluntarily ignorant
and cult-like. If that offends you, too bad. If that statement does not apply
to you, then why does it matter?
Date: Tue Apr 15 09:56:37 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"Yet they still would rather discuss Obama's words"
Again, it is okay for Obama to give speeches about how "Washington has
overlooked them" and about how they should "discuss" things without offering
any solutions. Basically every cliche in the political book, but not okay to
attack his words, even though that is all he is using.
The guy is a liar and a political image. If that is what people want, great,
but I wish we didn't ignore how much he has created his image versus things he
has really done.
Date: Tue Apr 15 11:48:12 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"Apparently in the eyes of many Obamanites, he can sugar-coat and not give any
straight answers while continuing to be dishonest"
This is the same BS you guys tried to say about John Kerry, despite the
fact Kerry had the most descriptive website of any nominee ever and explained
all his plans in detail.
It's really not going to work this time- so you should probably find a new
slander angle (or actually discuss the issues for a change)
Unlike, Kerry- Obama is straight to the issue and these attempts are going
to end up looking stupid- when he answers every attempt to play this game, and
isn't afraid to discuss any point he made. Like the "bitterness" word. Which
I openly agree with, and wish he wouldn't have said he chose his words poorly
and pandered to this ridiculiousness.
Hillary voted for NAFTA, then tells the steelworkers "I've always been here for
you"- that is a liar.
PS... "sugar coat"
Hows that George Bush square in Baghdad coming along? Still gonna have the
troops home by Christmas 2003?
Date: Tue Apr 15 11:51:26 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
Josh,
You've made it ultra-clear that you're 100% anti-Obama, and the statements you
continue to make are only based on your opinions. You have your opinions, I
have mine. And no, I did NOT get "huffy" about any personal attacks.
Obviously you think I came to this thread looking for a fight or something,
when I was only defending my candidate. I'm not here to argue - I HATE to
argue. If I wanted daily arguments I'd still be with my ex-wife! Now, you can
take that and twist it into me "wussing out" or whatever you want since you
like to twist other things around. You seem to want to cackle like a couple of
hens. But I'm not going to continue cluttering up this board with this
nonsense. I haven't read a valid point from you period as of late, so I'm not
going to discuss anything further with you unless you or others make some
actual factual vaild anti-Obama statements.
I guess if you still feel this need to go one-on-one, take it to e-mail form.
Date: Tue Apr 15 13:52:27 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I just found out I didn't know what "Elitist" meant
raised by single mom, spent time on foodstamps, went to college on scholarship-
lived in apartment for 13 years.
Holy crap!!!! I'm an elitist too! (according to McCain and Hillary anyway)
------
I started out slightly favoring Hillary, then Obama and still having no real
beef with McCain.
after all this-
I'm now 100% Obama, then McCain and lastly Hillary.
Date: Tue Apr 15 14:35:09 2008
Sender: Christopher E Smith
AJ - slip Nader in there in front of Hillary.
Date: Tue Apr 15 14:42:15 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"This is the same BS you guys tried to say about John Kerry"
No it isn't. Maybe others did. I didn't. I remember John Kerry answering direct
questions with "Go to my Web site". That made me think that he was merely a
puppet.
"so you should probably find a new slander angle"
Back to the, "If you have problems with Obama it is slander" angle.
"(or actually discuss the issues for a change)"
Obama doesn't, so why should I?
"Obama is straight to the issue"
If you think so. FREE GAS FOR EVERYONE!!!
"PS... 'sugar coat' Hows that George Bush square in Baghdad coming along? Still
gonna have the troops home by Christmas 2003?"
More of your, "well Dubya did it so it is not wrong". What part of "I didn't
vote for him" do you not get?
Date: Tue Apr 15 14:58:44 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"And no, I did NOT get "huffy" about any personal attacks."
Yes you did. You wrote about how your opinions were valid and how you didn't
need to explain them and how I was telling you that your opinion was wrong and
you'd much rather have hope than to be a person who has to ridicule those
people who are feeling hope and excitement about the future of our country.
"Obviously you think I came to this thread looking for a fight or something,
when I was only defending my candidate."
And I am criticizing your candidate. What trumps what?
"I'm not here to argue - I HATE to argue."
Then don't. You inferred the wrong thing from my wussing out comment. I was
making the point that one should not throw insults and then after they get
their piece in, say that they don't think insults should be thrown. That is
all.
"Now, you can take that and twist it into me "wussing out" or whatever you want
since you like to twist other things around. You seem to want to cackle like a
couple of hens."
Case in point. You say you don't want to argue and then throw these
antagonistic and argumentative lines in.
"I haven't read a valid point from you period as of late"
I haven't read anything valid from you, so na na na na na. Who are you to
decide what is valid or not?
"so I'm not going to discuss anything further with you unless you or others
make some actual factual vaild anti-Obama statements."
This thread is about Obama's character, which Obamanites seem to feel as though
is beyond reproach. If you feel that way, there is nothing to discuss.
Less insults in my post then in yours.
Date: Tue Apr 15 15:16:49 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
I think that with a little work, "Having no hope for the country" can replace
"Being a racist" in describing those that are anti-Obama.
Date: Tue Apr 15 15:44:26 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"I just found out I didn't know what "Elitist" meant"
Obama officially became a member of the elite right about the time he started
at Harvard Law. Your childhood only defines you for so long, and when you're
president of the Harvard Law Review you're pretty much writing your own story.
Date: Tue Apr 15 16:43:49 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
"raised by single mom, spent time on foodstamps, went to college on
scholarship-"
Brilliant distortion of the truth to make it seem like he overcame disadvantage
after disadvantage.
"lived in apartment for 13 years."
OH MAN!!! Rags to riches!!! It is impossible to think that his beliefs have
changed at all since he was 3.
Date: Wed Apr 16 08:30:44 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Uhh..
your going to sit their and claim he is some detatched elitist, and then when
you see he has a semi-normal background- you say he's distorting the truth.
**Please Explain whats distorted?
I'm sure everyhting he said was immediately fact checked by 100 republican
scumbags to see if they could catch him in a lie.
Hillary had it good, went to Wesleyan and later Yale.
McCain was raised by a 4 star admiral, went to a private prep school and then
the naval academy.
How are those realities?
**Ps- yeah opinions change, so why are people making a deal that he went to a
Muslim pre-school when he was 5?
Date: Wed Apr 16 08:54:28 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
"some detatched elitist"
Nobody's calling Obama a silver-spoon trust-fund kid: the issue here is that
his comments (talking like a sociologist about small-town midwesterners, to the
San Fran hoity-toities) belie his place among the "intellectual elite", which
is pretty much given for a Columbia/Harvard guy.
And I think MacOscar was saying that it's you doing the distorting in your post
above.
Date: Wed Apr 16 09:12:43 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
well he's wrong. ---
In PA, now they are debating who is the most "common"
You have Hillary drinking beer and talking about shooting guns in Scranton-
and you have Obama talking about his
"It is true I am amused about this notion of elitist," Obama said, citing the
fact that he was raised by a single mother, lived off food stamps, earned
scholarships, and had to finance his own law school education.
"[Michelle and I] lived for the first 13 years of marriage up until three years
ago, in a three bedroom condo without a garage," the White House hopeful said.
"So if you live in Chicago, that means you are scraping ice every morning."
In the end, the bottom line for those people should be the damage from NAFTA.
Like I said PA/Ohio are the places that really took the bullet for the rest of
the country.
Date: Wed Apr 16 09:19:46 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
Ah, I thought those were your words, so I retract my statement about MacOscar's
meaning, since it's conceivable he was familiar with that quote as well.
Either way, it's a pretty silly deflection by Obama, since I'm guessing he
knows full well that his remarks come off as "intellectually elite" (which he
and his Princeton/Harvard wife have been for decades) moreso than "upper-class
elite" (which they have been for only maybe 15 years or so). Either way, it
doesn't take that long as a major-firm lawyer or legislator to become really
out of touch with the common folk.
Date: Wed Apr 16 09:42:21 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
It must have been nice in the 1200's when it was openly accepted the majority
of common folk were dumb and needed a King.
Date: Wed Apr 16 10:22:36 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
He spent a few years (like from age 2 to age 5) being raised by a single
mother, not his entire childhood. He wasn't some latch key kid that spent an
hour a day with his mom between her four jobs.
Living in a 3 bedroom Chicago condo is hardly typical apartment living. You act
as though he was paying 750 a month and lived next to guys that work in a call
center. Oprah lives in an "apartment", so does Donald Trump. The brother of a
guy I know lives in a 2 bedroom apartment in Chicago, and makes well into six
figures.
He went to college on scholarship after going to high school at a prestigious
college prep school. Earning a scholarship is hardly a defining characteristic
of the common man.
==================================================================
Disregard your Roving of the truth and he still isn't "regular folk". I grew up
in a ghetto and live in a suburb. I am far enough detached from that upbringing
that it would be foolish for me to pretend I know what it is like for people in
that environment now.
But that isn't even the case, because he had plenty of advantages growing up.
Date: Wed Apr 16 10:25:07 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
far from Elitist.
Elitist would be well, George W. Bush
Date: Wed Apr 16 10:32:01 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
I won't argue that. Dubya was essentially a legacy elect. I see too many
similarities in how they pander to the masses with their "convictions" and
"hope".
Date: Wed Apr 16 10:39:44 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
All my anti-Obama sentiments aside, I see that he might be good for America on
the world stage. I don't care who is president as much as I care about how it
helps America. If he is able to build America's image back up without making
too many short-sighted Clintonesque decisions, I'll vote for cult leaders every
time.
Date: Wed Apr 16 11:00:20 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I just don't know why you think he is a "bad" guy on a character level.
So he has a racist preacher. Your hard pressed to find a black guy around who
doesn't have at least one racist friend.
I believe his is sincere in trying to be a good guy-
just like Reagan wanted to be a good guy, Clinton tried to be a nice guy, GW
Sr. was good hearted - He doesn't register very high on my evil meter.
(For the record neither did Dubya... just the administration he surrounded
himself with)
Date: Wed Apr 16 11:14:05 2008
Sender: Kevin Caery
Much like MacOscar, I'm not so opposed to Obama that I can't recognize his
better qualities and that he would improve our standing in world opinion simply
by moving into the White House. He's surely not a "bad guy", but I do question
the substance behind the style, and I just can't shake the sneaking suspicion
that he's a phony with a knack for oratory. And I would really really hope
that he wouldn't get the chance to name our next SC justice.
Date: Wed Apr 16 11:15:41 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
I don't think that he is a bad guy or has bad character. I don't think he
should be blamed for what Wright said. I think that he handled it poorly. He
likes to deflect a lot. He likes to say things are non-issues, but if the
people care about it, it is an issue.
I don't like how he criticizes his opponents for misinterpreting his words, and
then tells people that McCain wants to be at war for 100 years.
Put it this way, if this was South Park or the Simpsons, we would find out that
Obama asks a question and a computer generates the response most likely to
appeal to the masses. I think that he is a typical politician using the image
of being the anti-politician. He takes cliches like "those fat cats in
Washington have ignored you for too long" and gives them a fresh spin.
Date: Wed Apr 16 12:50:43 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
"So he has a racist preacher. Your hard pressed to find a black guy around who
doesn't have at least one racist friend."
Or White guy. Or hispanic. Or... well you get the idea.
However, his ties to Farrakhan are troublesome and raise the "preacher"
comments to a level of validity it otherwise would NOT deserve. His amnesia on
so many instances does remind me a LOT of Reagan. I figure he will be the same
mixed bag of blessings and curses that Reagan was.
Louis is one of the worst contributors to racism in the USA, Obama seems
extremely intertwined with him. I have a hard time believing that Barrack will
be able to unite anybody when Louis starts calling in 'the favors'. Hopefully,
much like Kennedy did to the mob, he will use any means neccessary to get
elected then turn quickly on the powers that helped him ascend.
Date: Wed Apr 16 14:23:17 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"I don't like how he criticizes his opponents for misinterpreting his words,
and then tells people that McCain wants to be at war for 100 years."
true- I agree 100%
-------
I haven't seen anything about Obama with Farrakhan. I can't beleive any
politician who actually wanted to win would associate with him.
Date: Wed Apr 16 14:38:56 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
That's why you don't see it. He denounced him during one debate, but he has
clear money ties (including his preacher- who is a Farrakhan running buddy) to
the man. The million man march thing is acceptable if addressed though
(wouldn't be an issue if not for the other ties to Louis.)
Date: Tue Apr 29 17:33:39 2008
Sender: Bill Edwards
Well FINALLY, Obama decided to throw the Rev. Wright under the bus, indeed the
train. He should have done this a long time ago. The question for me is why
did he wait so long. It became apparent early on that Wright was/is a whaco
that hates America. White I commend Senator Obama for finally taking the right
action there are many that think he waited far too long. The very things that
he denounced Wright for today at his news conference were the same things he
already new. I predicted when the Wright contraversey began that it had the
potential to derail Obama's campaign. It is going to be up to the voter's now
to determine if Obama has used good judgement in this whole mess.
Date: Tue Apr 29 18:00:51 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Fact remains he went to the guy's church for years, and the guy didn't just
start being a wacko.
Rather doubt this is over.
Date: Tue Apr 29 18:15:26 2008
Sender: Morris Cohen
"Wright was/is a whaco that hates America."
I just thought I would paste below a paragraph from his biography on Wikipedia.
It sure looks to me like he hates America! Of course, military service is only
respected and honored as a sign of patriotism when you're talking about a
Republican. When a liberal has a military record, he must have been simply just
using as a front for his hatred of US and the government.
-----
"Inspired by President John F. Kennedy's 1961 challenge to 'Ask not what your
country can do for you, but what you can do for your country,' Wright gave up
his student deferment, left college and joined the United States Marine Corps
and became part of the 2nd Marine Division with the rank of private first
class. In 1963, after two years of service, Wright then transferred to the
United States Navy and entered the Corpsman School at the Great Lakes Naval
Training Center, where he graduated as valedictorian.[10][6] Having excelled in
corpsman school, Wright was then trained as a cardiopulmonary technician at the
National Naval Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland where he graduated as
salutatorian.[6] Wright was assigned as part of the medical team charged with
care of President Lyndon B. Johnson (see photo of Wright caring for Johnson
after his 1966 surgery). Before leaving the position in 1967, the White House
awarded Wright three letters of commendation.[11][12][13]"
Date: Tue Apr 29 18:20:59 2008
Sender: Brian Dust
Only speculating, but maybe Wright's bitterness developed after his military
experience. Whereas he was willing to sacrifice his life for his country, the
majority of strangers he encountered determined his worth solely based on the
colour of his skin.
Date: Tue Apr 29 18:40:34 2008
Sender: William Johnson
" It is going to be up to the voter's now to determine if Obama has used good
judgement in this whole mess. "
I fully agree. That has been my position all along concerning the
Obama/Wright connection. I'm glad he did what he did and while I think much
more highly of him for his 'new' stance, I DO think it took too long. I hadn't
planned on voting for him anyway (wrong abortion/judge appointment stances) but
at least he should be able to get this (a little) past him and maybe salvage
his campaign.
Date: Tue Apr 29 19:06:18 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Morris-
Don't forget John Kerry hates America too in the eyes of conservatives, despite
the fact he did two voluntary combat tours in Vietnam.
The only way to show your love for you country is to get a couple military
deferrments, then cheer for others to go to war for you..... now thats
patriotism!
Date: Tue Apr 29 20:40:23 2008
Sender: William Johnson
Darn, I guess I'm not patriotic enough for liberals. I only volunteered while
there was no war going on. I knew I should have been born earlier or I should
have waited another 20 years for a war to actually be happening, then join.
Maybe if I become a racist, like Wright, you will consider me to be
patriotic!
Date: Tue Apr 29 21:15:35 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
I don't think it really matters if Obama had denounced this guy from the start,
or waited until now. The fact is that Obama went to his church...that's a
little bit above just knowing the guy or hanging out with him.
People who regularly attend church view their church's leader (priest, pastor,
imam, whatever) with respect and reverence. If they don't find the person
respectable and worthy of reverence, they typically find another church.
Obama had no problem with this guy or his views until they became national
news. I'd have more respect for him if he had defended him than if he had
denounced him. By denouncing him, he's denouncing his own choice of a religious
mentor for the duration of his adult life.
Date: Wed Apr 30 04:46:27 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
and Obama still doesn't have ties to Louis right?
Date: Wed Apr 30 06:01:47 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Who knows. I would think that between Odinga, Calypso Louie, Wright, Tony Rezko
and who knows who else, a picture would be beginning to form that indicates
that Obama isn't the pure-of-heart populist he portrays himself to be.
Lest you think I'm picking on him because he's a liberal, I dislike all three
major candidates remaining. I'm hoping someone with more name recognition and a
better TV personality takes the torch from Ron Paul next time around.
Date: Wed Apr 30 07:39:58 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
and every Christian whose pastor turns out to be a child molestor should go to
jail too, right? Since they must all be the same.
As you all have chosen to convientely ignore- Reverand Wright has been
involved in politics and been around the White House for 20 years-
PS- congratulations on taking another election and finding a totally
irrelevant, non-issue, that shouldn't mean a damn thing and turning it into a
key issue-
The fact this pathetic tactic seems to work, is just more evidence the
average American is too stupid to vote.
Date: Wed Apr 30 12:28:03 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
If it were just Wright, you might, *might* have a point, even though this is
not at all similar to someone who may have done things in secret that his
congregation didn't know about. Wright is clearly making no attempt to make his
views secret.
But it's not just Wright.
I know that it was made clear with the election of Clinton that the liberal
wing of the country couldn't care less about personal judgment. But others do,
and the fact that they do doesn't make them stupid.
Date: Wed Apr 30 18:30:22 2008
Sender: William Johnson
" and every Christian whose pastor turns out to be a child molestor should go
to jail too, right? Since they must all be the same. "
AJ, if Bush (or any prominant republican) had the ties to the kind of people
Obama has ties to, you would be lambasting them as if they were the most evil
person in the world. Why is it, now, that you defend a persons right to know
unscrupulous people? Is it because he is a liberal/democrat? If so, then that
is awful hypocritical...IMHO.
" PS- congratulations on taking another election and finding a totally
irrelevant, non-issue, that shouldn't mean a damn thing and turning it into a
key issue- "
See above answer/questions.
Date: Wed Apr 30 19:01:19 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
you mean like the ties the Bush administration has to the Saudis, who actually
support real terrorism?
Oh wait, thats too relevant, lets get back to meaningless topics. At least
Obama doesn't have any war medals Conservatives can try to dispute for 6
months.
Date: Wed Apr 30 21:47:33 2008
Sender: William Johnson
" you mean like the ties the Bush administration has to the Saudis, who
actually support real terrorism? "
Yes, that's exactly what I mean. Ties to racism mean nothing in an election
year, as long as the ties are to a liberal-right?. Ties to terrorist bombing
convicts mean nothing to liberals, too (weather-underground), well...as long as
it's a liberal who has that tie. See how the subject suddenly becomes
unimportant when the liberal has that tie?
Date: Thu May 1 07:17:21 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Every western government probably has ties to the House of Saud. It's pretty
well impossible to run a modern economy without it. Brazil might be able to,
but I doubt even that.
Bush's family has been in the oil business, so it stands to reason that they
would know the Saudis better than many others. I'm unaware of any evidence that
the House of Saud sponsors terrorism. There are some Saudi Arabian citizens,
quite obviously, who do. Just like there are some people in the United States
who do bad things as well.
Dolphin Simulation Games is not responsible for the content of posts.
Please report any offensive messages to help@dolphinsim.com.
