Date: Fri Mar 28 16:27:02 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
"a nearly recession-proof job"
Ooops. Last day is Sunday.
Date: Fri Mar 28 17:14:20 2008
Sender: Brian Pate
damn kyle, that sucks. sorry to hear that.
Date: Fri Mar 28 17:18:25 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
Not so bad. Unemployment seems like a sweet gig, actually. 80% of what I make
now for not working.
I can make up the rest of that by cutting basic cable and playing some extra
poker.
Date: Fri Mar 28 18:22:28 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
be careful... unemployment is addictive.
In 2000 I was getting $434.00 per week I think when I moved from Seattle to PA,
briefly.
LOL, thats a pretty high standard of living in Central PA.... mix that in with
a little part time under thre table, and thats high on the hog.
Date: Fri Mar 28 20:50:25 2008
Sender: Jamie Davise
Was that $434 after taxes? If so, you were earning about the same as me at that
time--and I was plowing 50+ hours a week in my first year of my chosen career
field.
Throw in your second job, and you were definitely dwarfing my take home pay.
Date: Sat Mar 29 11:20:03 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Well I guess this thread is all we need to prove that welfare is a disincentive
to work.
Date: Sat Mar 29 11:52:53 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
Unemployment isn't welfare. And I have a job interview Tuesday with another
paper.
Date: Sat Mar 29 12:21:24 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Not talking so much about you and your situation but AJ's story and the whole
thread really.
And unemployment frequently becomes welfare.
That said, I wish you great luck on your interview and hope you end up with a
better job than you had.
Date: Sat Mar 29 14:17:27 2008
Sender: Red Burley
"And unemployment frequently becomes welfare."
I dont know about your state, Henry, but in Massachusetts you can only collect
as much in unemployment benefits as you have accrued by WORKING. If you only
worked 2 weeks, your time collecting benefits will be mighty short.
Unemployment is NOT welfare, you have to earn your unemployment benefits.
Date: Sat Mar 29 15:23:11 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Point being that people draw unemployment and then just go on welfare because
they like getting paid to not work so much.
Date: Sat Mar 29 15:42:34 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
But this thread hasn't had any examples of that?
Date: Sat Mar 29 19:25:02 2008
Sender: Randy Rhodes
I just feel terrible for you Kyle...best of luck on Tuesday! I'll be praying
that things go well, please keep us posted.
Date: Sat Mar 29 19:52:56 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
I'm not too worried about the interview or the general state of things. I'm
not real sure I even want the job I have Tuesday. It'd be a big step down (20k
circulation to 1800) and add reporting duties to my editing duties. I actually
applied for it a few weeks ago, but only as a shot in the dark because it's my
hometown. I haven't lived in the same town as extended family since I was nine,
and thought it might present some interesting opportunities.
This is why unemployment insurance helps the free market. I'm a skilled,
intelligent worker, the kind the economy thrives on. Instead of scrambling to
take the first thing offered, I can now take my time and make reasoned,
rational decisions on where I might fit best, be it in the newspaper industry
or elsewhere.
Date: Sun Mar 30 00:19:40 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Give me a damn break...
Henry I'm getting sick of this righteous shit.
I paid my own unemployment when I was working
I was getting 434.00 a week in 1999. I was 26, I enjoyed it for a few months I
had a good time, then I moved to FLA and got a job.
How much do I freakin owe you? I'll send you a check for a couple bucks since
your so damn scared that you won't get yours or someone might get a little more
than you.
Date: Sun Mar 30 00:56:47 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
I'd like to see some real statistics about unemployment turning into welfare.
As was mentioned, you have to work for quite some time to accrue it. And you
can't get it unless you become unemployed through no fault of your own.
So you have to have been the type of person who both wants to and is able to
work for quite some time before you can even get those benefits.
Date: Sun Mar 30 10:34:50 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Well, how do you think people get on welfare? I'm guessing they don't get on
welfare by thinking that not having a job is unbearably crappy.
Date: Sun Mar 30 11:24:56 2008
Sender: Laurent Boudias
What I would like to see from people who criticize welfare or unemployment or
universal healthcare,etc..
Please if it's such a great thing to benefit these things, why don't you leave
your job? Really, when I read you, it seems it's so unfair that these people
get everything for free. Why don't you quit and get welfare, medicaid,
unemployment, etc... and tell us how great it is!
I have been unemployed for 2 months last year, with my family to take care. I
felt like shit and I don't want to be back in this situation for anything in
the world, even if you give me free healthcare, free food stamps, unemployment
money that last a few months by the way. I want that for nothing. So what is
your problem with people getting it? Are they in such a great situation you
envy them? Please, join them and shut the f#$@#$ up.
Date: Sun Mar 30 11:59:59 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
That makes no sense. Why would i be a part of that when i know what a drain on
society it is?
Why don't you people who support the nanny state talk to people that are on and
find out why they don't get off?
I'm glad you felt the way you did. Many people don't.
Date: Sun Mar 30 12:31:36 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
I get the distinct feeling you have no evidence whatsoever to back this up,
Henry. You are just imagining these bugaboos.
Date: Sun Mar 30 12:45:16 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
Maybe he has NO evidence. I'll readily admit mine is 'not scientific".
However, he ISN'T making them up.
Few examples I know from MY personal experiences:
My Aunt (R.I.P.) found that having babies and saying you couldn't read was a
heck of a lot easier (and more lucrative by her estimation) than working a
minimum wage job, or fighting her way down a chosen career path. (Thanks to
Clinton for shutting off the number of children loophole)
A friend from my youth group has worked probably 5 jobs for a total of 150 days
since what would have been his graduation (1991). He enjoys not having to
work, and had the 'good fortune' of having a son- so the system won't shut him
off and he knows it.
And More personal and a much more aggravating problem for me. My Mother is a
1970's Cancer survivor, but she did so with tons of radiation. The cost was
high, as basically her insides fused together. She also ended up with a
colostomy. She was capable of working (until recently) but was NOT ALLOWED by
the government- because if she worked they WOULD NOT help her with her medical
supplies. As a single mother she couldn't afford work a low end job and get
her medicine while still paying the bills. So we lived on what she could
manage to save. I went to work at 16, and did my best to ease her burden.
She WASN'T allowed to get off the system. Others above just abuse it. Either
way it is a drain on society.
Date: Sun Mar 30 16:48:02 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Kyle, I'm starting to not hope you get a better job than what you had.
Don't tell me what I'm imagining and what I'm not.
Maybe you should add some reporting to your duties so you can get out from
behind the desk and learn something about the real world. Or how to apply some
critical thinking skills. Do you think people with good jobs just wake up one
day and say "you know what? Screw it, I'm gonna have a kid and go on welfare"?
It happens because people get started in the system (or know someone in it) and
decide it's a better life than if they actually contributed to the economy.
You're just another fresh grad that thinks he knows it all. How's that
recession-proof job going? I guess we'll chalk that up as just one more thing I
tried to tell you but you didn't believe.
Date: Sun Mar 30 17:07:07 2008
Sender: Laurent Boudias
Mike, you know that I can only sympathize with what your mom and your family
went through. And not only me, but everyone else.
I strongly disagree with you on the outcome of the situation your mom and you
had to go through. To me it would be something that would push the concept that
she shouldn't have had to go through her illness the way she did.
Someone who is sick should be able to have a coverage whether one works or not.
You said working meant no coverage from the government? Well maybe because
employer's are not obligated to provide one. If there were a unique healthcare
in this country like there's one in France, she wouldn't have had to go through
that.
That's a shame to me that a modern country doesn't care more about its own
people for basic needs.
Date: Sun Mar 30 17:09:44 2008
Sender: Laurent Boudias
Yeah the majority of people who live on welfare are in a better situation than
if they had a job. So obvious.
Is this candid camera?
Date: Sun Mar 30 17:18:04 2008
Sender: Morris Cohen
I wouldn't doubt that there are people who are "abusing the system" as you
describe? But seriously, how many of those people are there? I don't actually
know, but giving one or two examples doesn't mean it's a widespread problem.
Does anyone have a figure or an actual estimate?
Bear in mind that there are a lot of people working their butts off even after
extended unemployment. It's easy for us to say "just get a job" when you've
had good circumstances in life, but a lot of people go/stay unemployed for
reasons aside from laziness and/or incompetence: Broken families, prejudice, a
whole industry leaving a town, disability, a poor education system, natural
disaster, a long recession, or just bad luck.
So many people who end up unemployed work their butts off to try and get back
on their feet, for years if they have to. I hope you aren't saying that we
should cutoff or abandon that group? Not only do they deserve our help, but in
fact a lot legitimately need it to have a reasonable chance to keep them above
water enough to get back on their feet.
So the simple question is...how big is that first group? If it isn't big
enough to noticeably drag our society/economy down, then I think it's awfully
important not to abandon those in the second group. In short, don't throw away
the whole bushel because of one bad apple.
Date: Sun Mar 30 17:19:26 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
Yep, you got me figured out.
Been working since I was 16. Busted my butt through college, advanced through a
highly competitive field of candidates to become editor-in-chief of one of the
top 25 daily college newspapers in the country. Left school a semester early
so I could work and finish my degree at the same time. Spent the summers at
college working internships. I literally went to work the day after finals
ended my last semester at school. Last year, I voluntarily relinquished one of
my two weeks of paid vacation.
Now that I've been laid off, my plan is to take advantage of the benefits of
unemployment insurance that my employer paid on my behalf to take my time and
find a good fit. But that plan is going to be thrown off. Once I find out how
sweet a few hundred bucks a month of unemployment payments are, all my
ambitions and work ethic are going to melt away and I'll crave the day-to-day
substinence living of government welfare. I will be a burden to the system for
the rest of my days, popping my wife full of welfare babies to squeeze a few
extra ill-gotten bucks out of the system.
I'm not arguing with you that there are people out there gaming the system
unfairly for their lazy benefit. I'm questioning whether unemployment benefits
are the conduit to that life that you think they are.
Date: Sun Mar 30 17:26:59 2008
Sender: Kyle Mayhugh Too
It's amazing how almost every one of your beliefs and theories boil down to two
simple constructs, Henry:
1) You have special knowledge that regular people, even experts in the field,
do not or are trying to suppress.
2) People (or luck) are out to get you or take away something from you they
have no right to take.
Whether it be welfare, the football sim's constructs, recruiting, economics,
it's all out to get you and your special knowledge.
Where was your free-market system when you told me you were more talented than
the major-metro reporters but couldn't work there? I thought the market would
guarantee that the best would rise?
Date: Sun Mar 30 18:10:35 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
"I wouldn't doubt that there are people who are "abusing the system" as you
describe? But seriously, how many of those people are there? I don't actually
know, but giving one or two examples doesn't mean it's a widespread problem.
Does anyone have a figure or an actual estimate?"
How Should one get an estimate on this? If one were able to be attained, I'd
hope they would just go the extra mile and 'force' the system gamers to work.
You don't want a real job or to get real training for a career? Ok, well,
there is a ton of litter on these roads, or some other menial job. Don't show
up, Don't participate-- We bring food ONLY for the kids. Starve. Sorry, just
the way it should be IMO.
Seperate the ones that NEED help from the ones that WANT help. I can say
everywhere I've lived I have seen a significant edge in the latter group. I
KNOW there are people who need help, but I don't think it is a majority.
Laurent, Sorry but I have to disagree. What company would hire an unskilled
worker (My mother dropped out of college to have me- then went back and got
struck with cancer) who's medical coverage would be large. I understand they'd
pay a premium, but if they made a habit of hiring those workers their premiums
would go sky high.
Date: Sun Mar 30 18:36:00 2008
Sender: Laurent Boudias
Mike, I'm not talking about the current system but what I would expect from a
modern country.
And I don't want to hear about skills or level of education. In France for
instance, the same coverage is available to simple employee or management. It
doesn't matter how much you earn, you pay a % of your wages, not a premium.
It's ridiculous to ask a director and a janitor from the same company to pay
the same amount of money to get healthcare.
Date: Sun Mar 30 20:44:44 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"Please if it's such a great thing to benefit these things, why don't you leave
your job? Really, when I read you, it seems it's so unfair that these people
get everything for free. Why don't you quit and get welfare, medicaid,
unemployment, etc... and tell us how great it is!"
LOL, I stopped reading after this post. It says it all.
the only plausible rebuttle is altruism....... which is 100% contradictory to
capitalism.
great stuff.
Date: Sun Mar 30 21:40:48 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Kyle, I didn't say you were going to. But this thread and what you and AJ said
(even if wasn't totally serious) shows how it could.
--
Where was your free-market system when you told me you were more talented than
the major-metro reporters but couldn't work there? I thought the market would
guarantee that the best would rise?
--
It may have, in time. The market doesn't guarantee you anything, and it
certainly doesn't guarantee you anything on your time schedule. I got an offer
to work for one of the top 100 papers by circ (or it was at the time, dunno if
it still is) but it wasn't a full-time position so I turned it down. In
retrospect, I probably should not have done that. But I would rather have
gotten out of the business rather than taking a part-time job in a different
town.
And if you know the newspaper business half as well as you let on, you know the
phenomenon of people getting a job 30 years ago at some metro but not
supermetro and just staying there forever. Then, when those jobs finally open,
it is of great advantage in the hiring process (and particularly in sports) to
be darker than the average bear, or have a uterus, thanks to non-market
influences.
Basically, it came down to me making a call; do I want to do this for 20 years,
and if it doesn't work out big that would be ok? Or would I wish I had tried
something else?
Date: Mon Mar 31 08:33:25 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
"I thought the market would guarantee that the best would rise?"
you really believe it's that simple?
Maybe if you are far and above the Jordan of your business, if not you better
know the game. Your competing with the slick talkers, resume fakers, cousin of
the bosses wife, the girl thats sleeping with the CEO, the minority they want
to showcase,etc,etc,etc.....
Date: Wed Apr 2 13:05:12 2008
Sender: Joshua MacOscar
Bummer Kyle.
One of the things that makes America great is that you can be a bump on a log
and collect welfare or go-get-'em and drive a nicer car.
My extended family has individual families across the spectrum. Welfare
abusers, paycheck to paycheck workers, high level blue collar making good money
level, white collar rich folks, wealthy farmers, grow to eat farmers,
entrepreneurs that sell and travel sell and travel sell and travel, office
monkeys, etc...
I would say that the family members that are not welfare abusers are happier
even though they work harder.
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