Date: Wed Sep 5 16:24:59 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Yes, Civilization IV... I've been playing this off and on since the
graphics-challenged days of the early 90s. Not that I'm a detail-oriented,
obsessive, competetive control-freak or anything like that!
So if anyone is interested, maybe we could start a PBEM game? The WWII
scenarios would be my suggestion for a good place to start. The developer has
updated the remedial one that was shipped with the game and just released a new
version.
Date: Wed Sep 5 17:27:10 2007
Sender: Lord Bremen
Are you sure you mean Civ IV? Pretty sure that's only a few years old, and you
can't play it by email, though I think there is a hotseat option.
Date: Wed Sep 5 18:28:57 2007
Sender: Brian Dust
Jay,
Nah, there's no way a DEL member would be "...a detail-oriented, obsessive,
competetive control-freak or anything like that!"
Regards,
Brian
Date: Wed Sep 5 18:38:21 2007
Sender: Don Keefe
Beyond the Sword is supposed to be the mother of all expansion packs... if i
had a job... and income... i'd likely get it. Presently, however, Civ IV isn't
installed in my PC, sorry mang.
Date: Wed Sep 5 19:47:55 2007
Sender: Matthew Reid
There are very few games that I have owned a copy of for every version.
Civilization is one of those that I have. I'm not sure I would be up for a
play by email game of it though. There are so many turns, the game could end
up taking a year or longer to complete.
Date: Wed Sep 5 21:50:58 2007
Sender: Old Lyme
You can play it by electronic mail, direct IP connection, hot seat, and LAN.
Date: Wed Sep 5 22:20:07 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
You're right, Civ IV hasn't been around that long, but I have been playing
since the beginning. I have the Beyond the Sword expansion and it does indeed
rock. Yes, PBEM can take forever -- I've done a couple games that took 6+
months. But those were the start-at-the-dawn-of-time, so
nothing-happens-for-a-RW-month kind of games. That's why I suggest something
shorter, finite, and already 'built up' like the "Road To War" scenario.
Starts in 1936, ends in 1950, 2 turns per game-month, so that's like 180 turns.
Can also start it in 1939 and get down to business right away, but without the
ability to build up your country the way you might like but it would go
quicker. And since it is WWII, everyone pretty much knows what to expect.
Date: Thu Sep 6 04:21:10 2007
Sender: Chris Blackman
i love this game!!!!
may pick up the expansion pack this weekend.
we should play online.
cb
Date: Thu Sep 6 07:44:57 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
For those of you who want some more background, try
http://www.civfanatics.com/. The links on the upper lefthand side are the most
useful, particularly the overview/update ones for CIV IV and BTS.
Date: Thu Sep 6 08:54:18 2007
Sender: Matt Opasker
I've been piddling around with Civilization since the first version also. I
think it's a nice enough game and heaven knows I've wasted enough hours playing
it, but I can't stand the combat engine, in any of them.
Date: Thu Sep 6 09:30:35 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
I think the combat engine is much improved from where they started. No more
spearman-defeats-tank kind of results, though there are still the occasional
quirky results (presumably randomness, like the occasional Hail Mary in DEL).
The AI is much improved also, though of course not like playing against a real
human.
Date: Thu Sep 6 10:27:33 2007
Sender: Henry Morgan
I have it loaded, play it sometimes. Dunno about a PBEM game...is there a way
to play for free online?
Date: Thu Sep 6 11:06:15 2007
Sender: Gregor Ellis
I've been a Civ fanatic since v1 - I'm in if you get something going.
Date: Thu Sep 6 12:09:21 2007
Sender: Eric Opperman
I think there's three games I've owned every version of (and all but maybe one
or two expansion packs) -- Sim City, Civ, and Railroad Tycoon. Unfortunately,
I don't play any of them as much as I'd like.
Date: Thu Sep 6 12:45:43 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
For those who haven't done PBEM before, here's how it works. It's like a chain
letter. The first player does their turn in its entirety, including whatever
battles they choose to initiate (which are resolved instantly, as usual), and
then clicks end-of-turn. They then send the savefile to the next player in
line, who does their turn and sends it on, and so on. So, how fast the game
goes depends upon how much time folks have to do their individual turn when the
file arrives. Also you have to notify people if you are
unavailable/on-vacation/etc. and the game stops for a while. When I did this
before with some friends we usually did 1-4 turns per day, usually skipping the
weekends.
This contrasts with the online method, which I have not tried, where everyone
has to be online at the exact same time just like IM. If anyone has connection
problems, then they disappear or somesuch. Also, unless you play on a LAN, you
have to have someone host it and this is not free (to my knowledge). Given my
obsessive nature I like PBEM because I can ponder my moves more thoroughly.
'Free' is good too.
Date: Thu Sep 6 15:15:06 2007
Sender: Matthew Reid
Civ 4 is available for online play and is 100% free whether or not you host.
Date: Thu Sep 6 19:27:50 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Wow, I'm glad online is free now. It's been a while, but my recollection was
it was not free in the last version as they tried to get you to subscribe to
gamespy I think it was. I also recall copious problems with the newest online
when it first came out, but the forum seems to indicate that all is well these
days. I'd be up for trying it, but still think PBEM is more flexible for
fitting it to everyone's schedules.
Date: Sat Sep 15 12:24:33 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Shall we try to start up a PBEM game using the Beyond The Sword "Road To War"
mod? It will take a while to get this organized, but here is what you need to
do/have already done:
upgrade to CIV IV Beyond The Sword
upgrade to the BTS patch 3.03
install RTW add-on beta-3
install RTW-1938 supplement files
Yeah, yeah, patches and downloads are a pain in the [asterisk], but cannot be
helped. There have been issues with setting up this PBEM elsewhere, so this is
still evolving (another patch is imminent, as is another add-on) and hopefully
will be simplified.
For the RTW add-ons, refer to this forum:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=242428
The official patch is also available through links off of the CivFanatics forum
as well as in-game.
I am suggesting we use the modified 1938-start with historic timeline/events
for the WWII European theatre. 1938 allows enough time for players to develop
things before war is declared in 1939. Historic events hard-code the
alliances, so everyone knows what to expect (e.g., Germany declares war on
Poland in Sept 1939, UK/France declare war on Germany in response).
Here are the playable/viable countries:
Axis:
* Germany
* Italy
Finland
East Balkans
Allies:
* United Kingdom
* France
* USSR
* USA
Norway
Low Countries
West Balkans
* minimum number of countries/players needed
We can also combine some countries to one player, but only certain combinations
because the countries are hard-coded to play in a certain order.
Norway/LowCountries is one combination. Norway/USA is a combination, if East
Balkans is not played. Finland/Germany is a combination, if West Balkans is
not played. Each of the six main countries should be played separately.
If you are interested, please post here. Thanks.
Date: Sat Sep 15 12:33:17 2007
Sender: AJ Perok
I wouldn't mind. But I have NEVER played.
Date: Sat Sep 15 16:54:34 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Then the first step AJ, is to pick up a copy of CIV IV (the original version is
required to run BTS) and try that and see if you like it before moving on to
BTS. Since CIV has been out a while it should come cheaply, or maybe you can
rent it. Beware: it is completely addictive.
Date: Sat Sep 15 22:01:54 2007
Sender: Don Keefe
i don't think you can rent PC games... can you?
Date: Mon Sep 17 11:37:03 2007
Sender: Chris Blackman
I would like to play as the UK and i do have Civ 4. lifelong fan of the
series.
is it possible to purchase and download the new Sword expansion, patches, etc
online, or do you need a hard copy from a store?
churchill blackman
Date: Mon Sep 17 12:48:42 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
You can get the BtS expansion from Amazon or a store. I thought some video
rental store was doing game rental now, but that may only be console stuff.
The patches and mods are available online, check civfanatics.com forum.
Date: Wed Sep 19 08:49:29 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Anyone else interested? I get bored playing against the AI, just like in DEL.
Depending on what timezone everyone is in, and the order of play, I would guess
we would only do 1-2 turns per day, which is not a huge time investment. I
think we need six players to make it interesting (the USA player doesn't have
anything to do war-wise for a while, so giving them Norway makes sense).
At least download the add-on and check it out.
Date: Wed Sep 26 08:35:03 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
The latest news on the upcoming patch from the Civ forum is that it is due in
the next week or so. The patch will incorporate the latest updates to the Road
To War scenario. Once that happens, then there will be a simultaneous 'final'
add-on to the Road to War scenario. So, we could get this started in the next
couple weeks, if enough people are interested and can get the updates. But
don't wait until then to try the scenario for yourself (try the updated one,
not the vanilla one shipped with the game).
I forget if I mentioned the 1938 add-on scenario, which was added for PBEM. It
allows some pre-war build-up (war starts Sept 1939), but not so much that you
sit around for a RW month just building factories (ala the 1936-start).
I've tried this scenario as most of the major countries, as well as Finland,
and all are viable. Rumor has it that the new update will allow ships to be
attacked in port and submarines will be a viable naval option.
Date: Thu Sep 27 04:53:39 2007
Sender: Chris Blackman
i bought this on the weekend, and encountered errors during the installation
process.
will try again this weekend, once i get some time away from the office.
cb
Date: Mon Oct 8 09:31:54 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
The 3.13 patch and the associated RTW add-on have been released over the
weekend, if you want to check them out. The patch works fine for me so far.
Haven't tried the new add-on yet, but will do so in the next day or so.
Date: Tue Oct 9 06:41:33 2007
Sender: Chris Blackman
Hi Jay,
I was able to get the version i bought to work.
Havent tried to download 3.13 yet, though will do once i can get one of the IT
pros here to drop by my place for a beer, and get them to take care of it for
me.
quick question - just playing a little on the weekend, the 1936 road to war
scenario, europe. playing as UK - how do you get oil to the main UK
islands???? i know they have oil in theor holding in hte middle east, but i
cannot make tanks and planes, ships etc because the Brits dont have oil.
blackie
Date: Tue Oct 9 08:18:23 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Chris, that 1936 oil situation for the UK is a bug: the oil is there in the
middle east, but somehow is not connected. Download the latest BTS patch and
the latest RTW add-on pack and it should be fixed. I'll try a new game tonight
with the latest patch/add-on. I loaded it last night and it ran OK to start a
game.
Date: Tue Oct 9 08:29:55 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
BTW, to clarify the situation from the earlier messages, you now 'only' need to
have the following in order to play the 'final' Road To War scenario:
install Civilization IV (original game, commercially available)
install Beyond the Sword expansion (commercially available)
install BTS patch 3.13 (via download)
install RTW add-on pack for 3.13 (via download)
[dunno if one needs the latest patch for vanilla CIV IV]
There are rumors of problems with the new BTS patch (surprise, surprise), but I
haven't encountered anything serious in the game that I started most recently.
The only non-standard tricky maneuver is to delete the current RTW directory so
the new RTW directory can be installed in the final add-on pack - apparently it
will not overwrite, and the original folder can still foul things up even if
you rename it.
Date: Tue Oct 9 14:38:27 2007
Sender: Chris Blackman
thanks! will do.
cb
Date: Thu Oct 11 12:42:54 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
The rumors were true of a bug in the RTW add-on for the 3.13 patch. So, the
add-on now has a small patch too. Problem(s) apparently solved!
Again, if you are interested in getting involved in a PBEM game with this
scenario (Europe 1938), try out the scenario yourself first so you're familiar
with it (e.g., so that that pesky declaration of war in Sept. '39 doesn't catch
you napping).
3.13 patch for BTS:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=245912
RTW add-on:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=246246
patch for add-on: same thread as add-on, item #5.
Date: Sat Oct 13 04:53:59 2007
Sender: Chris Blackman
Jay will do. Crazy at work - so maybe not this weekend, but soon!
Am playing the original version of BTS here.
Question about naval forces: how do you set up carrier groups?
Do you simply stack your carrier with a few crusiers, a battlehsip and some
destroyers, leaving the aricraft on board in the 'intercept' role......or do
you position the destroyers out circling the carrier in a screening fashion?
Not sure how to best protect my capitol ships.
cheers,
cb
Date: Sun Oct 14 17:53:41 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Chris, Unless you have so many ships that you can completely encircle your
carrier group with 8 separate groups of additional ships, it is best to just
stack them in one place for mutual defense. Keeping some planes as
interceptors is wise. Watch for differences in the ships in the RTW scenario:
subs are very effective now against capital ships and can best be countered by
destroyers, cruisers and destroyers can intercept air attacks, battleships can
bombard units on land.
Date: Tue Oct 16 02:49:32 2007
Sender: Chris Blackman
thanks - i think a real problem though is that i cannot find any bombers you
can place on carriers - only fighters. wasnt WWII the big turning point from
battleships and cruisers to the importance of aircraft carriers because of
their ability to inflict damage?
unless i am missing something, fighters are virtually useless against ships.
cb
Date: Tue Oct 16 08:25:38 2007
Sender: Jay Schlegel
No, bombers cannot be put on carriers, only fighters. There is some
simplification in the plane units so that there isn't a proliferation of units
for the AI to get confused about how to use. So, just fighters and bombers, no
carrier-based dive-bombers for example. Fighters can be effective against
ships, but some ships can shoot down fighters, so there is a balance. And the
fighters of some countries are much stronger than the fighters of other
countries, or can be later in the game with research upgrades.
Part of the issue is the difference between history and how you/I/the-AI would
utilize this scenario. Yes, WWII was the turning point for the use of
carrier-based air power. Big lumbering capital ships ended up at the bottom of
the ocean after being sunk by carrier-based planes. But some of that was the
failure of WWII-era naval commanders to effectively defend those capital ships
from air attack. In CIV-RTW I do occasionally see the lone ship without
carrier-based interceptor cover -- and my planes immediately sink it. However,
if the AI puts their ships in a space with air cover, my air attack is either
less-successful or down right suicidal.
Date: Tue Mar 25 07:10:12 2008
Sender: Jay Schlegel
*bump*
Any of you Axis & Allies folks interested in trying a PBEM game of Civilization
IV BTS (3.13) - Road To War (Europe)? Check the thread mentioned above; there
is movement afoot to start a PBEM game (approx. one turn per day, details are
still up in the air). There has been another upgrade to the scenario, which
adds/fixes some things.
Date: Tue Mar 25 15:24:52 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
I'm not interested in playing, but have you ever played the regular WWII
scenario as Poland?
I've tried probably 10 times. I survived once, but only by getting the British
to basically give me North Africa.
Date: Tue Mar 25 16:21:52 2008
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Haven't tried Poland yet. Did try Finland once in historical mode. They have
a short early war with Russia, then fight again later when Germany attacks
Russia. The AI was lame enough that I was able to eventually take all of
northern Russia essentially without any help from Germany. Getting the AI to
do things which a human opponent would be likely to do is difficult to program,
which is why I'd like to give PBEM a try.
Date: Tue Mar 25 19:19:21 2008
Sender: Henry Morgan
Tried with Finland as well...somewhat similar result once, one other time they
took Helsinki and the southern half of the country. Pretty boring up there for
the most part.
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