Date: Mon Oct 15 11:06:56 2007
Sender: Perez Suarez
I do not write a lot on the forum; however, I have been a member of DEL since
the year 2001. I know it might be hard to belive that I did not notice it
before but I have a team in BEL (Nuggets) and I was trying to see how
successful teams have so many good players year in and year out.
I found out that the budget for each team is different. While I have around 53
million a team like Golden State has 72 million. Supposedly DEL is based on the
NBA, NFL, etc then why donīt we have a salary cap that remains the same for
everyone?? and how can I get my team to have a larger budget.
Any answers will be appreciated.
Date: Mon Oct 15 13:50:39 2007
Sender: Ryan Hawkins
You can increase your budget by winning more games. Understanding the
financial aspect of the pro league is probably the biggest key to success.
Date: Mon Oct 15 16:24:07 2007
Sender: Perez Suarez
Ryan, can you explain a bit more in detail or someone else??
Date: Tue Oct 16 04:10:50 2007
Sender: Marc Byers
Budget is determined by bank balance and team performance, the more you win,
the higher the budget, the more cash in the bank, the higher the budget
Date: Tue Oct 16 09:14:49 2007
Sender: Ryan Hawkins
Marc is the best guy to ask on the financial stuff. He helped me a ton. As he
stated, win more games and have cash on hand. Those 2 things will increase
your budget.
Date: Tue Oct 16 09:21:30 2007
Sender: Perez Suarez
Thanks for the help and I am grasping that part of the game a whole lot more
now but I was wondering then DEL sports do not have a tight salary cap or do
they???
Date: Wed Oct 17 11:08:45 2007
Sender: Red Burley
"Date: Tue Oct 16 04:10:50 2007
Sender: Marc Byers
Budget is determined by bank balance and team performance, the more you win,
the higher the budget, the more cash in the bank, the higher the budget."
This is totally true, but it presents a conundrum: to win, you have to have
talent. Talent costs money, and prevents you from having a big bank account.
In some sports, like football, you can overcome a lack of talent by clever
strategy; in others, particularly the basketball sim, strategy seems to pretty
much non-existent, so you cant win unless you have talent. So you have
situations like the CBA, where 1-2 teams compete for the title year in and year
out, and the rest are just basically there to compete for third place.
Date: Thu Oct 18 13:14:18 2007
Sender: Ryan Hawkins
It is very easy to improve team talent with minimum salaries. I think a lot of
coaches overlook that.
You don't need a big budget to build a championship caliber team although
obviously that makes it a lot easier to go after the superstars.
In the CBA, I have a payroll of $49 million and I have the 2nd best record in
the league and #6 rated Team Talent. Compare this to the league giants like
Sacramento ($81 million payroll) and Utah ($65 million) and you can see there
will be a slight talent disparity when it comes to landing superstars, but it
is still possible to build a highly competitive team and increase your budget
very quickly.
Date: Thu Oct 18 17:44:28 2007
Sender: Red Burley
Ryan, I usually have a highly competitive team, make extensive use of those
minimum salary guys, and am usually ranked in the top 5 in talent (this year is
an anomaly, I got seriously screwed in training camp).
Having said that-even with the best team I ever had, I had no chance whatsoever
of beating Sacramento. I havent won even a single game against them in a long
time. Utah has gotten to the same point, I have no chance against them.
Sacramento loses what, maybe one game a season? Year after year after year.
That is a tribute to Marc's great ability in building a franchise, and I dont
want to slight him one single bit. However, at what point does it become futile
for anyone else to even bother having a team in CBA? When they know full well
they have no chance to win a championship?
Date: Fri Oct 19 05:37:57 2007
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
PErsonally I like the system the way it is. It forces coaches to try to win.
Plus in a way it's realistic, because fans wouldn't bother coming to watch a
horrible team play. Revenue would go into the toilet.
If $$ wasn't tied to performance you'd have coaches tanking for the higher
pick. However, in the current system tanking for the pick would cost you
millions.
Last year I took over a team in BEL. I came in with the idea of building the
team slowly. My goal was to make the playoffs with a roster of cheap contracts,
while trying to add as many picks as possible. I figure it'll take me a few
seasons to compete for the title, but I should be able to maintain the team at
a high level for a long time once I get there.
I'm in my firsat offseason now. I have one very good rookie and a bunch of
picks. I also have 51 million in budget space. It's my intention to stay below
the salary cap and above the minimum salary tax next year. Hopefully add a few
winning pieces to the roster and win 50 games.
All too often coaches try to turn it around in one season. It's possible, but
probably not realistic. Winning a championship takes time.
Date: Fri Oct 19 17:19:04 2007
Sender: Red Burley
Well its pretty hard to build a team when all the young talent either goes to
one of the hapless Bob teams (who just waste their talent) or to one of the
elite teams with enough money to buy whoever they want. My CBA team is always
too good to get good draft picks, and too short on payroll to have a chance to
sign the elite players. So what am I supposed to do?
Date: Fri Oct 19 17:42:45 2007
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
Red the actual difference in available cash between your team and the Kings is
only 4 million (when you factor in luxury tax), so let's not be so dramatic.
You've got 9 million to spend, which is a tonne of cap space, especially as the
season progresses. The Kings can only offer .04 million to a free agent and
have to have salaries match in any deal they make. You are basically free to
spend your money any way you want for the rest of the season cause your 9.99
million under budget.
If I were you I'd fish around the league for good players in the last year of
their contract. Offer a pick(s) for the player + cash if the player is willing
to re-sign.
Date: Sat Oct 20 03:10:04 2007
Sender: Marc Byers
The key is not to waste cash on players not worth contracts, so you can either
try and sign a whole bunch of studs, and then try and find a bunch of solid
guys for the minimum to round out the roster, or you can look to sign 2nd tier
guys for relatively cheap and get an entire roster 10 deep of these guys (low
A, high B types)
Personally with my Kings, we have spent more than I ideally like spending the
last few seasons, I like being up to about 2 million above the salary cap, that
way I can keep making money each season, currently we lose money in the
bucketloads
Date: Sat Oct 20 09:10:57 2007
Sender: Ryan Hawkins
To me, there are only 2 types of contracts I offer.
For studs: overpay to make sure you land them
Role players: non-guaranteed contracts only
I think 95% of coaches in these leagues are wasting money with $4-$7 million
contracts on role players. You can find equal talent for the league minimum.
Date: Sat Oct 20 10:46:39 2007
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
Ryan I think your method is probably best. In truth that's the way I used to
run my teams... multi-year contracts on A players and then sign as many
non-guaranteed guys as you can and hope some of them get better at camp.
The only problem with this method is the effect it has on chemistry. For this
reason, about 1 year ago I switched my method. I tried to sign more 3-6 million
dollar multi-year deals at the expense of a stud contract. That way I'd have
less turnover and my chemistry would be better.
In retrospect however, I have found that my teams have done worse ever since I
started worrying about chemistry. Additionally it's really tough to mainatin a
chemistry higher than moderate.
Worse of all chemistry is so poorly defined. Nobody really has any idea what
sort of effect it has on a team. Does it make it easier to sign free agents?
Does it make your guys play better? If so, in which way (less turnovers, better
defense, etc).
Date: Sun Oct 21 11:05:10 2007
Sender: Red Burley
I think, from my experience, chemistry shows up the most in close games and
playoff games. Its hard to quantify it, tho.
Date: Mon Oct 22 03:06:57 2007
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
I've heard about ten different theories on chemistry, which illustrates just
how poorly it is understood among DEL coaches. Don't get me wrong, I don't want
its effects to be absolutely defined. But it would be nice if we had some vague
idea of how it plays out in the sim.
Since we have basically no idea what chemistry does, coaches tend to simply
ignore it in favor of a more talented roster (via lots of non-guaranteed
contracts).
Date: Mon Oct 22 08:44:08 2007
Sender: Jian Lan
It takes a long time to build a franchise. I started both in CBA and IBA when
Marc and Jeff (and Bill) were totally dominating (and they still are). I took
similar paths in both leagues. In the CBA I was borderline .500 team for a
good 5 years but was able to sign a couple of good players each season and
build up my salary cap and had a breakout year in the 6th season. In the IBA
my early seasons were horrible. I'm talking 10 and 20 wins. But it was the
same story. I had a breakout season during my 7th year there. The key is once
you have your breakout season you have to maintain it by either signing or
drafting younger players via trade or free agency/waiver. I often see a team
have a great season then lose everyone to free agency and crash the following
season. There has to be a long term plan and commitment.
Date: Tue Oct 23 07:59:28 2007
Sender: Red Burley
"The key is once you have your breakout season you have to maintain it by
either signing or drafting younger players via trade or free agency/waiver. I
often see a team have a great season then lose everyone to free agency and
crash the following season. There has to be a long term plan and commitment."
Jian, this sounds a lot like my CBA Chicago team. A few years ago, I made it
to the Finals. Since then-frustration. I didnt lose everyone to free agency
right away, but I always seem to be missing a piece of the puzzle: a big time
rebounder, a perimeter shooter, a big man who can score in the post.
It seems that getting the young players is the hardest part for me; I never
seem to have the cap space to sign young guys-the good ones that you cant sign
to a minimum contract- off waivers. As for the draft, I just dont have much
luck, even on the rare occasions when I've had good draft picks. Thats probably
due to my inability to identify good talent, but my draft picks always seem to
fall apart come training camp time.
You mentioned trades; Ive always envied you in your ability to make those
high-profile trades. It seems like all the offers I get, go like this: "I'll
take your best player, and your first round pick, and give you a couple guys
who are career backups. Oh, and since Im doing you a favor by taking on all
that salary, you can give me $2 million cash as well". Seriously, most of the
trade offers I get in CBA seem to be calculated to insult my intelligence, they
are so bad. You seem to pull off one or two high-profile deals every season.
Anyways, I agree with all of you that building a champion takes time. Maybe Im
just a bad GM, I dont know. Whatever the case, it seems like Im getting further
away from the top, no matter what I try to do.
Date: Wed Oct 24 03:21:26 2007
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
Coaches that send ridiculous trades drive me nuts. There are a couple of guys
that do it all of the time. I make it a point to never read their Trade Blocks
or to send them offers.
On the other hand, there are a lot of coaches that really look for fair deals.
These are the guys that I consistently make deals with.
I think the key is you really need to think win-win. Otherwise you're just
wasting time.
Date: Wed Oct 24 10:42:28 2007
Sender: Jian Lan
yeah, there are some offers that just doesn't sound right. i generally try to
make a trade in mid season if i feel like i'll be contending. but sometimes i
just call the season lost and make moves for next year.
Date: Sat Oct 27 10:48:52 2007
Sender: Red Burley
"I think the key is you really need to think win-win. Otherwise you're just
wasting time."
You are right, Jeff, but it seems like those type of deals are few and far
between. I dont think Ive made a deal (outside of rookie-for-rookie) in CBA in
4-5 seasons.
Date: Wed Oct 31 20:50:23 2007
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
Red, you need to be creative. They're not easy to find, but they are out there.
In BEL I've made a tonne of trades this year (literally about 10 in one
offseason). I moved a bunch of players for draft picks, and then found I had
too many draft picks to use this season, so I traded them for picks next
season.
In the IBA I traded a bunch of expiring contracts last season for younger,
slightly less talented players.
There's always deals to be made. Just keep those eyes open and your trade block
updated.
Date: Wed Oct 31 22:06:17 2007
Sender: Ryan Hawkins
I agree with Jeff. The key is being active and making quality offers instead
of waiting on offers from everyone else.
Date: Fri Nov 2 14:40:41 2007
Sender: Red Burley
Wow, I thought this thread was finished . . .
Jeff- I was wondering what you were up to in BEL. I was trying to figure out
what you were doing. Now that you explain it, it makes sense.
"The key is being active and making quality offers instead of waiting on offers
from everyone else."
Ryan- Here is perhaps the core of the problem. I guess I dont really know what
a quality offer is. For instance, in the CBA offseason, I offered these guys,
looking for draft picks:
327 T.Dolenc C 33 5 9 0 7 7 3 1 24 100 6'10" A A C
15 F.Edmonds PG 32 8 10 7 6 1 4 7 24 100 6' 2" A A PG
346 D.Jaros SF 29 7 7 5 5 5 5 4 21 100 6' 9" B B SF
608 D.Woolams PG 30 10 8 3 5 1 6 8 21 100 6' 2" A A PG
I had one offer for Edmonds, but the person offering couldnt juggle the payroll
to make it work. Other then that, NOTHING. Are guys of this caliber really not
worth a first round pick? Do their high salaries make them untradeable?
I'm not being sarcastic, btw. I see some of the trades that are made and
wonder, "what is the sense of that?". A lot of them seem to make no sense.
Of course, after some of the bad trades Ive made in the past, maybe Im just
gun-shy now. Probably some of the trades Ive been offered were better then they
looked to me.
Date: Fri Nov 2 17:55:46 2007
Sender: Ryan Hawkins
Contracts are a big part of it, but it has always worked best for me to make a
specific offer to a team instead of just a Trade Block Press Release.
I would look through other teams rosters and see what you are actually looking
for in return and start with making a specific offer to that team.
By the way, if you are looking to trade any of those players I didn't get the
message. LOL
Date: Fri Nov 2 18:34:54 2007
Sender: Jeff Luddingsmash
LOL Red!
There is method to my madness. When I broke into the league last year I knew it
would take me atleast 2 seasons to get my team to contention level, and winning
championships is my goal. As such, anybody on a two or three year contract
became expendable. As such, I moved as many of them as I could for draft picks,
as drafted players are more likely to be on the team when I contend for a
championship.
Problem is I picked up too many picks... didn't have enough roster spots to use
all the picks. So I traded the picks for future picks.
Overall I think it all worked out well. I'll be 10-15 million under budget, so
I'll be able to bank some cash or maybe even pick up a star player sometime
during the season. And so long as I didn't blow the draft, I should hook a
couple solid rookies.
As for my team... well I ain't winning this year, but I think they're good
enough to get into the playoffs and maybe even steal a round or two.
Date: Fri Nov 2 20:18:39 2007
Sender: Red Burley
Well my thinking with my CBA team was to tear it down and start over again. I
dont have the juice to to be a serious title contender with my current lineup,
and I dont seem to have much luck with "adding pieces". Maybe I need to change
teams? Or move to a league with a little more parity?
Date: Fri Nov 2 20:22:05 2007
Sender: Red Burley
Then again, there doesnt appear to be a league that has much parity. Which was
my original point.
Date: Sat Nov 3 09:27:00 2007
Sender: Jian Lan
The IBA is all about parity!
Red - are you still looking to trade some of those guys?
Date: Sat Nov 3 10:49:32 2007
Sender: Red Burley
Jian, I may be still in the market, drop me an email.
(Good lord, I was complaining about the rich getting richer, now Im on the
verge of helping them . . .)
Date: Sat Nov 3 11:16:14 2007
Sender: Jian Lan
sent you an email ;)
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