Date: Tue May 13 09:51:11 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
that this guy played crappy for.
I would expect this guy to at least hit .250, .260 at a minimum.
Weurding OF 32 4 3 2 10 3 5 1 2 23 L L 100 B B
this year .171
3 years on my team
.195
.238
.278
Date: Tue May 13 12:36:54 2008
Sender: Jay Schlegel
This is an example of what has never made sense to me about the attribute
process as implemented in DEL. Sure, there is some randomness/intangibles.
But how long would it take a real-world scouting service to downgrade someone
like this if they not only weren't getting it done but continued to get worse?
By year-3 of hitting poorly, shouldn't this guy be like Co=7 by now? Maybe one
year is a fluke, maybe even two years is a fluke, but the guy is 32-YO so it's
not like the scouts don't have some data to go on by now.
Date: Tue May 13 19:22:16 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I have 5 and 6's hitting higher.
Date: Tue May 13 22:08:21 2008
Sender: James Mathis
TO play devil's advocate, I have always thought contact meant the ability to
keep from striking out, not necessarily the ability to make good contact or hit
line drives. Without looking at his stats, does he just have a poor average on
balls in play and a low K rate?
Also, he hit over .270 on the the three prior seasons. In DEL-land that's
probably top 20 in batting average.
Date: Sat May 24 15:00:20 2008
Sender: Andy Dolphin
The DEL abilities are sort of the ideal world -- the player's physical
abilities, completely unrelated from how he actually performs. So no, player
ability ratings don't get adjusted for performance over time. It's your job as
the coach/GM to look at both the ratings and the stats to come up with an
overall estimate.
You're right that in reality, scouting reports get adjusted over time based on
actual performance.
Date: Tue Jun 3 21:54:58 2008
Sender: Frank Hopkins
From the DEL Help pages:
"Successful DEL coaches look primarly at the player abilities rather than their
stats when scouting. While there is some "hidden" information in the abilities
(real abilities are on a scale of 0-100 rather than 0-10, so you don't know if
somebody with a "6" is really a 6.0 or a 6.9), this is still a much better
scouting tool than the player's stats. A better player should have better
stats, of course, but better stats can also result from good luck, how the
player was used, or teammate skills."
hummm
Date: Tue Jun 3 22:41:40 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
I believe the help files were written before the implementation of the 'hidden'
attribute. Before, I think, a 3 could be a 30 or a 39- now with the change it
could be from 2something to 4something.
I could be wrong though.
Date: Wed Jun 4 06:36:06 2008
Sender: Frank Hopkins
Just to clarify...
What Andy is saying seems to agree with my observations. My "experience" has
taught me to look at a player's history, along with his attributes, in making
decisions on value. It is hard to resist a hitter with a contact rating of 10,
but when he has hit .230 over a 3 year period, I will temper my enthusiasm for
him.
This guy:
Dr Ds Sp Co Pw Df Ar
3 5 5 9 4 6 1
Was the WBL batting champ and hit 32 home runs.
Meanwhile, this bum:
Dr Ds Sp Co Pw Df Ar
3 5 2 10 4 7 1
Hit .238 with 16 home runs.
Date: Wed Jun 4 15:19:44 2008
Sender: James Mathis
I believe that the help files were also written before the advent of "fogging"
in the EPBL. As such, that paragraph from the help files is extremely
deceptive as it relates to the EPBL Draft and minor leagues.
Date: Wed Jun 4 18:58:49 2008
Sender: Darren Reifler
What advent of fogging? Care to enlighten me? I honestly don't know what you
are talking about since I don't play EPBL. I have never seen anything that
suggests hidden attributes or whatever are something Andy added to the sim
mid-stream.
It seems to me you are just reading too much into a very general statement from
the help files. A player with 10 contact will tend to strike out less than a
player with 7 contact, but his overall average would still be the result of
more than just that one ability. Speed and power for instance would play a
role.
What that help file is suggesting is that a guy with 9 contact and 8 power will
likely keep an decent average and hit 30-40 HRs a year, but his stats over his
first couple of seasons may not reflect that for some reason (he wasn't fully
developed or just bad luck).
Obviously the amount of emphasis you put on stats rises exponentially as he
gets more ABs especially after he reaches his peak around age 27-28. For a 35
year old player I will likely ignore his abilities completely and just look at
his stats while keeping in mind that all older players may decline some from
year to year.
However, like in the draft discussion, how much emphasis to put on stats and
how much to put on abilities is something that there is no clear answer to.
Personally, I have seen way to many star players have a horrible season to
place too much on just one year, but you can also hurt your team waiting for a
sub-par youngster to "come around".
Date: Thu Jun 5 05:22:25 2008
Sender: Mike Boofer
January 2, 2003: All
An "intangible" ability has been added to all players. The effect is that
players will perform slightly better or worse than one would expect from their
listed abilities alone. The effect is small -- enough to make a listed ability
of 10 play like a high 9 or low 11 but not 8 or 12. The effect is halved for
primarily-physical abilities such as speed or aggression and zero for
purely-physical abilities such as height or stamina. Note that the computer
evaluations of players will take this partially into account.
As far as I know it isn't just for the EPBL.
Date: Thu Jun 5 06:12:24 2008
Sender: Darren Reifler
Thanks, I had forgotten that it was added, but all that says is "slightly"
better or worse. That definition of intangibles to me backs up the statement
that abilities are still the primary evaluation tool. Such a change can happen
in actual abilities from season to season anyway.
Date: Thu Jun 5 06:14:24 2008
Sender: Darren Reifler
I think I wrote that poorly. I meant to say that I knew that was the way the
sim/abilities worked, but had forgotten it didn't always work that way.
Date: Thu Jun 5 07:18:40 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I remember hearing "slightly" meaning less than 10% once.....
still if your 8 contact is an 80, then it becomes a low 70- thats a big
difference from an 89.
Date: Thu Jun 5 10:27:40 2008
Sender: Darren Reifler
Ok, but I clearly remembered that players in the majors, at least before the
playing time change, developed faster even though it turns out that was nothing
but a common mis-conception or mass-misremembering ;).
I don't claim to know, but am just pointing out that the exact wording of the
above quote is not 10%. It says a displayed 10 may be a "high 9". Since it
could have been a low ten and displayed a ten that isn't a big jump to high 9.
Again, this discussion is probably getting too specific anyway. From the time
you sign a guy til he gets through training camp and offseason his abilities
will likely be tweaked anyway.
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