Date: Wed Mar 19 09:29:13 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I am really tired of errors, is there any setting on trick
I'm missing. We used to have training settings for baseball
where you could pick up the defense?
now I'm stuck with this crap? I can't get better fielders
Padilla OF 26 8 4 4 7 8 9 1 1 20 R R 100 14 B B
Today back to back plays-
Line drive to Padilla (RF).
Fielding error. Triple.
Line drive to Padilla (RF).
Fielding error. Single.
1 RBI.
My defense should be solid. I have 9's at SS,CF,5+ most everywhere else yet 20
ERRORS????
it's ridiculios.. there are guys who go all season with 3 or 4
errors in the OF, I get 2 o 3 a game.
Date: Wed Mar 19 11:58:15 2008
Sender: Kendell R Jillson
Yes, errors are a problem, but what are those players 'def play %'?
(essentially their zone rating). If an outfielder makes 400 out of 500 plays
(80%), but has 10 errors, in my book that's better than one who is 375 out of
500 (75%) but only 5 errors.
Date: Wed Mar 19 16:45:39 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
unfortunately there really isn't a reliable way to measure it..
and besides I know it's just a product of my horrendous pitching, it still
pisses me off.
Nothing like lousy pitchers who can get 12 consecutive outs, give up 1
single... (then lose it) and give up 5 hits in a row.
Date: Wed Mar 19 19:26:09 2008
Sender: Tim Howe
A.J.
It really erks me too! This season I have made 15 errors in 17 games. Masser
made 10 errors all of last season and he already has 5 this season. IT SUCKS!
Date: Thu Mar 20 09:39:12 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
Tim-
I read your comment, then I went to read my morning PBP- and what was the very
first batter?
Bases empty. No outs.
Batter: Burner (0.354 BA, 3 HR, 8 RBI, 0.380 OBA)
Takes High, ball 1.
Line drive to Matias (LF).
Fielding error. Double.
Matias LF 29 7 3 3 7 9 5 1 1 21 L L 100
pulling his 2nd error in 30 plays.
-------------------------------------
PS look at NUNEZ
PA PM E
last year 545 380 7
this year 116 70 4
I mean really, IS THIS JUST TOTALLY RANDOM?
Date: Thu Mar 20 12:35:10 2008
Sender: Just Oz
Two Andy comments from a previous AJ whine about errors on this board :-)
*************
Real-life infielders are charged a disproportionately high number of errors
because they have to catch, throw, and catch to make infield outs. DEL errors
are just assigned when a sufficiently easy play isn't made. The difference
doesn't affect the outcome of the game, though.
**********
Then, in answer to AJ's question:
AJ: So for outfieleders.. it's not always technically an error -as a ball
bouncing
off a glove... it could be a ball that drops in because an OF lacks the speed
to get to it also.
ANDY:
AJ, that's correct. In DEL, there is no distinction between an easy play
missed because it bounced off the glove, because the player got a lousy jump on
the ball, or because the player was too slow.
Date: Thu Mar 20 13:33:50 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I knew all that....
still doesn't make me less irritated.
Date: Fri Mar 21 07:14:37 2008
Sender: Darren Reifler
What is it that you are trying to imply? I am not getting in what way you
think it is not random. An entire team can stop hitting one season just cause
the dice roll differently (it has happened to me), and you are suggesting that
you can't have an abnormal number of errors?
One thing about randomness is that it is irrational, so, if it doesn't make
sense then that makes it more likely to be due to random variation. You seem
to be implying, however, that it somehow follows a pattern that you are not
elaborating on, but until you mention what that pattern is then there is not
much to say.
Date: Fri Mar 21 13:16:03 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
there is no consistency.
Year in year out some guys are better fielders and some guys stink.
Have we ever had like a 3x Gold Glove Winner?
look at the top rated defenders-
this guy ranked #3
Lucero 3B 29 5 5 0 9 6 1 4 2 19 R R 0.69 1 0.055
these guys ranked #2
Prim RF 30 6 5 2 10 2 4 2 1 22 R R 2.79 1 0.059
there seems to be very little consistency
Date: Fri Mar 21 15:07:16 2008
Sender: Greg Pearson
The lack of frequency of repeat gold glove winners is indeed interesting,
Although, given that there's only one pick at each position in the entire
league, it is pretty hard for someone to repeat.
The current stats are meaningless. It's still April. All the stats are wacky
this early. Does anybody really believe that Anaheim's going to lose 136
games? That Henrio's going to hit .365? That Tunks and Barney will both hit
63 home runs? That Dullaghan will get 211 RBIs? That Angarita, Green, and
Ramirez will finish the season without letting a run score?
Date: Fri Mar 21 16:40:05 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I've followed the fielding in seasons past.
It will be just as random come season end. I'll follow up.
Date: Fri Mar 21 17:23:45 2008
Sender: Mark Z
DBL gold glove winner at shortstop 3 of the last 4 seasons
B.Metcalfe SS 28 3 4 9 10 4 9 7 2 22 R R -- A A
AB H RBI HR BB SO SB PA PM E Avg
666 174 96 25 75 90 45 690 515 4 0.261 Gold Glove
606 170 91 27 53 74 33 736 537 13 0.281 Champion
586 172 103 18 49 72 35 737 525 8 0.294 Gold Glove
All-star
616 157 69 12 31 103 33 691 510 7 0.255 Gold Glove
Date: Fri Mar 21 17:27:16 2008
Sender: Mark Z
MEL 2-time gold glove winner in CF, and consistently outstanding defense in the
other seasons.
J.Kresy CF 30 4 4 9 7 5 10 3 2 23 R R -- A A
AB H RBI HR BB SO SB PA PM E Avg
539 134 53 7 27 117 21 538 439 7 0.249 Champion
562 132 84 10 41 116 31 548 451 9 0.235
573 121 50 9 34 130 13 543 452 7 0.211 Gold Glove
559 136 83 16 34 112 23 559 459 6 0.243
566 119 73 23 28 118 17 367 284 5 0.210 Gold Glove
Date: Fri Mar 21 19:11:50 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
It makes me happy to see that (note the 9 speed on both?) now if we could just
see a little more from time to time, and while I'm at it.... some consistent
.300 hitters
Date: Fri Mar 21 20:52:24 2008
Sender: Jay Schlegel
Ever since my Df=10 CF had 3 errors in the very first game when the algorithm
was changed, this has bugged me. It does seem similar to the issue with the
variance between the .200 and .300 hitters with similar attributes, even when
one considers that DEL 'errors' are not exactly equivalent to errors in the
real-world (I forget the nuance). Sure there is variance/randomness. However,
are we victims of the "emphasis which DEL coaches put on pitching" (where
strong pitching affects both hitting and defense) or is there actually
something out of balance here?
What also has bugged me is what this means in terms of scouting (i.e.
attributes). Sure, anyone can have an 'off' season, or be affected by an
injury or something, or be affected by playing in a pitchers' park or whatever.
But what I wonder about is: after X seasons of hitting .220, why doesn't the
scouting service alter the estimate of the attributes closer to the observed
reality? How can a veteran major league hitter who averages .220, well below
the league average, still be considered to be a Co=9? How can a veteran major
league fielder who averages 20 errors a season, well above the league average,
still be considered to be Df=9? It is one thing to have fuzziness for rookies
and players who have few games-played over the seasons, but it is another to
have veteran players who don't match their attributes the way that other
veteran players do. I can see where newbie coaches could consider this to be
something like an insider trick, say when they are told to look for high
attributes and sign someone to a big contract and the player stinks it up.
Date: Sat Mar 22 07:22:38 2008
Sender: Greg Pearson
Yeah, I wonder if that 9 speed isn't what's making the difference. Don't I
remember Andy saying somewhere that errors are "missing the plays you should be
making"? Theoretically, a Df 10 guy should be making the play on most balls
that come his way. But, if he has a low Sp, especially in the outfield, he's
not going to make it to as many balls. Maybe the formula for determining
whether something is scored an error isn't weighting speed as much as the
formula for determining whether the play is made?
Date: Sat Mar 22 21:22:35 2008
Sender: AJ Perko
I'll bet it is...
I'm just wondering how much I'm underestimating it?
Is a 9 speed 5 defense better than a 2 or 3 speed, 10 defense?
does speed matter at 1B for defense?
Date: Sun Mar 23 07:29:36 2008
Sender: Greg Pearson
And is it really telling us something about defensive ability or is it just a
quirk of the way the sim scores errors?
I would guess that we need to look at fielding percentage, rather than errors,
to really tell how much of a difference this is making.
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